I don't believe any true Christian can lose their salvation. God keeps His own. What I do believe is that professing (but not possessing) Christians or apostates are going to be shocked one day to find that they were not really saved (if they ever thought they were). These people that Revelation 22:18-19 are referring to are the lost - though they may have a form of godliness, they are tares among the wheat, wolves among the sheep.

The Book or letter to the seven churches was just that. A letter to the seven churches. The Book we call the Bible was not even assembled at this time. Most of the books, as we call them, written by Paul were letters to people and to churches. This statement in Rev. 22:18-19 is talking only about the letter that was written to the seven churches.

[Diligent]

Originally Posted by eagle777

The Book or letter to the seven churches was just that. A letter to the seven churches. The Book we call the Bible was not even assembled at this time. Most of the books, as we call them, written by Paul were letters to people and to churches. This statement in Rev. 22:18-19 is talking only about the letter that was written to the seven churches.

That will be little consolation to those who have deliberately removed portions of the book of Revelation from God's word (like Westcott and Hort):

1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

1:11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.

5:14: And the four beasts said, Amen. And the four and twenty elders fell down and worshipped him that liveth for ever and ever.

14:5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.

20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

21:24: And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.

Originally Posted by Diligent

That will be little consolation to those who have deliberately removed portions of the book of Revelation from God's word (like Westcott and Hort):

1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

1:11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.

5:14: And the four beasts said, Amen. And the four and twenty elders fell down and worshipped him that liveth for ever and ever.

14:5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.

20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

21:24: And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.

They were 7 churches then existing. Typically they represent the course of the church
age. Spiritually represent 7 different kinds of local churches, and 7 different kinds of
believers.
Paul Foltz

[Luke]

Originally Posted by jerry

I don't believe any true Christian can lose their salvation. God keeps His own. What I do believe is that professing (but not possessing) Christians or apostates are going to be shocked one day to find that they were not really saved (if they ever thought they were). These people that Revelation 22:18-19 are referring to are the lost - though they may have a form of godliness, they are tares among the wheat, wolves among the sheep.

Pray tell, what is the difference? I hear this everywhere! What is a professor and a possessor? Please give me a clear picture, thankyou.

There are a lot of people who call themselves Christians (ie. profess to believe), but have never truly trusted the Lord Jesus Christ for salvation - perhaps they never understood the Gospel, perhaps they know what the Gospel means but were unwilling to repent of their sins, perhaps all they did was say a prayer without knowing the truth of who Jesus truly is or what He did to save us, perhaps they are still trying to work their way to Heaven. All these profess salvation, profess to be saved - but are truly not saved. Ie. they are professors, not possessers - they are not born again, do not have the Holy Spirit indwelling them; therefore it is no surprise that when they get disillusioned about the "Christian life" - which they are perhaps trying to live without having the Holy Spirit inside enabling them to live it - they "reject Christ", and apostasize from the faith - which they never truly possessed to begin with. That is what this passage and Hebrews 6 refers to:

1 John 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

Those that left "the faith" - ie. apostasized from the true believers - were never truly of them (ie. true believers). It is not a loss of salvation, but a rejection of their previous profession.

[Luke]

Most of that makes sense, except

"perhaps they know what the Gospel means but were unwilling to repent of their sins"

I don't understand how one can repent of their sins if they aren't saved. One can be sorry, they could turn over a new leaf, but without being born again, one cannot actually repent and forsake sins.

I think a better way of wording that would be "They know what the Gospel means but want to continue living in sin, and not be changed by it's power".

Otherwise, I suppose that every Christian should be merely a professor, as not a single Christian on earth has repented of all their sins and stopped committing them.

Originally Posted by Luke

Most of that makes sense, except

"perhaps they know what the Gospel means but were unwilling to repent of their sins"

I don't understand how one can repent of their sins if they aren't saved. One can be sorry, they could turn over a new leaf, but without being born again, one cannot actually repent and forsake sins.

That is not what the Bible says.

Otherwise, I suppose that every Christian should be merely a professor, as not a single Christian on earth has repented of all their sins and stopped committing them.

Who said anything of repenting of ALL their sins? If you present the ten commandments to someone you are witnessing to - then you should expect them to either repent of those ones they have broken, or to hold on to their sins and reject the Gospel. There is no such thing as deliberately holding on to sin and receiving the Saviour at the same time. If someone is presented with the commandments they have broken and still holds on to those sins while at the same time "turning to the Lord", they are deceiving themself. What are they turning to the Lord for? I turned to the Lord to save me from my sins and to forgive me for them - that meant a turning away from those sins in my heart and a turning toward the Saviour - which is exactly what the Bible teaches.

Acts 20:21 Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.

I stopped running my way in life, and started going God's way.

Originally Posted by jerry

There are a lot of people who call themselves Christians (ie. profess to believe), but have never truly trusted the Lord Jesus Christ for salvation - perhaps they never understood the Gospel, perhaps they know what the Gospel means but were unwilling to repent of their sins, perhaps all they did was say a prayer without knowing the truth of who Jesus truly is or what He did to save us, perhaps they are still trying to work their way to Heaven. All these profess salvation, profess to be saved - but are truly not saved. Ie. they are professors, not possessers - they are not born again, do not have the Holy Spirit indwelling them; therefore it is no surprise that when they get disillusioned about the "Christian life" - which they are perhaps trying to live without having the Holy Spirit inside enabling them to live it - they "reject Christ", and apostasize from the faith - which they never truly possessed to begin with. That is what this passage and Hebrews 6 refers to:

1 John 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

Those that left "the faith" - ie. apostasized from the true believers - were never truly of them (ie. true believers). It is not a loss of salvation, but a rejection of their previous profession.

I wouldn't know of a clearer explanation of a professing Christian and a possessing Christian. Or a false convert to Christianity vs. a Christian.

I guess we'll have to wait and see if it is clear to all.

[Luke]

Sorry to change the topic from Revelation...

How would a person know if they are a false convert?

I believe Jesus Christ died for sinners. I admit I am a sinner. I believe Jesus Christ died for me. I have called upon Him to save me from Hell, from myself, from my sin.

Following my conversion, roughly seven years ago, I have sinned, sinned and sinned some more, and felt guilty about it all the time, until I came to a point where I almost lost the feeling of guilt, and could almost sin without feeling guilty. This was a real wake up call for me, and I fervently prayed that God would increase my faith and help me to trust in Him more to overcome temptation, and since that time, I have had the most severe testing of my faith ever. I am not even in any gross sin anymore (I am not without sin, everything done without faith is sin), but I constantly doubt my salvation. And yet, what more can I do to be saved?

I hate sin, specifically, I hate my own sin. I despise it. I despise my past. I believe Jesus Christ died for me. I believe Jesus Christ is the Saviour of all those who call upon His name believing the Gospel, and yet I have no assurance, because of a lack of trust. I cry out "Lord, I believe, help thou my unbelief", and no respite comes.

No doubt there are some who would look at my life in the last six years and proclaim that I am not saved because of gross misadventure. And yet, if they would merely venture into the prayer closet with me and hear the cries from my heart, I wonder if they would dare do the same?