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  #21  
Old 11-01-2008, 11:46 AM
Bro. Parrish
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Thank you brother, and I hope it helps others with these difficult concepts,
God bless...
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  #22  
Old 11-01-2008, 11:48 AM
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That sums it up for me, too.

I think the word "unrepentant" makes a difference.

God hates unrepentant sinners. They're the ones who'll face His wrath in judgment.
  #23  
Old 11-01-2008, 12:18 PM
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Originally Posted by kittn1 View Post
That sums it up for me, too.

I think the word "unrepentant" makes a difference.

God hates unrepentant sinners. They're the ones who'll face His wrath in judgment.
Yes, that sums it up pretty neatly. I never said, or thought, that God hated people in the wilds of Borneo who have never heard the Gospel.
  #24  
Old 11-01-2008, 02:56 PM
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Originally Posted by MC1171611 View Post
Something tricky to watch for is verb tenses and indirect objects.

"For God so loved the world..."

First, that's past tense. It doesn't say "loves." At a point in history, God loved the...

Secondly, that's "the world," not "everyone in the world" or "all the people in the world." "World" is a collective noun, not a specific noun. God saw His creation steeped in sin and headed for Hell, and His infinite love (balanced by His perfect wrath) made a way for His creation to be saved.

Rom 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

God loved us while we were sinners...plain and simple.
  #25  
Old 11-01-2008, 10:38 PM
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Rom 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

God loved us while we were sinners...plain and simple.
Nope. God commendeth His love toward us...Christ died for us.

God's display of His love was the sacrifice of Jesus Christ. That verse does not say that God loves sinners. Period.
  #26  
Old 11-07-2008, 03:09 AM
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Originally Posted by aussiemama View Post
It seems that there are passages in the Bible that teach that God hates sinners. I don't like that idea, but it appears to be Biblical. My whole life I had heard that "God hates the sin, not the sinner" but somewhere in Psalms it says that God hates sinners. What is the truth on this matter?

G'Day aussiemama.

To answer your question: There is NO such verse as that! It is often mentioned and tossed about---usually by evangelists or preachers who are trying to get folks to "Make a decision or a profession" to believe in Jesus Christ,,,BUT without the need for repentance.... { in other words: It is trying to tell folks that Jesus is their good friend and wants to be your pal/buddy/"mate"... versus the Biblical message which is that: All haved sinned--- But there is a Hope, a Remedy, A Saviour---> Christ Jesus died for sinners. He is NOT "our good buddy in the sky". Wrong views of The Lord often (always!) lead to wrong thinking about sin and salvation, and the need of a Saviour.

Another one that often is heard/said/told is: "God helps them that help themselves." That is not Bible, but is rather from the writings of one of America's Founding Fathers-- Benjamin Franklin. A smart man in many areas, but not a Theologian.

Another that is used quite often by some Christians is not a Bible verse, but is actually a line from a Campus Crusade Tract: "God loves you and has a wonderful plan for your life." { Which is almost like the title of a book that the J.W.'s ( The Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society) pass out/sell....}.

The easiest way to check out whether something is actually in The Book is to open up a Concordance and look for one or more words of the sentence/verse that you recall hearing or reading and start looking/comparing.

... I did this many moons ago when I went to a Pastor at a Church I had been invited to ( He had preached a sermon about believers having Faith) and I went up to him after the service and told him: "I can't find it right now (using the Index of my Collins Bible) , but I'm sure that [I gave the Ben Franklin quote] is in the Bible". He graciously smiled at me and challenged me to go home and "keep looking for it"... Well, 30 some years later and 2 Concordances and nearly 6 Bibles,,, still haven't found that "verse"---

Aussiemama--- I don't know if you are a baby Christian, or a Child/Teen/Adult/Senior in your Christian walk... Not meant to be insulting, I just don't know. Therefore please accept this advice (No charge/No Tip) as I think it will help you understand the "Basic Plan" for all humans... by The Lord God Almighty. If more Christians would read the book from cover to cover, they would see "The Big Picture". Too often people read a "Devotional Verse" for the day... without ever reading the whole context of the chapter, and the section of the Scripture that the one verse came from.

If you want to know what God our Creator says about Sin and sinners, I would urge you to start with Genesis 1:1 , and go to the end of Exodus. Then turn over to the Epistle to the Romans in the New Testament and start with chapter 1 verse 1, and read to the end of Romans.

...I'll give you a hint: Adam and Eve got us in Big Trouble with a Holy, Just, and Righteous God... but that very same God is all-knowing and ... Now you'll have to read the rest to see "The Plan"... Then let us know what you find as you travel Canaan, and the Sinai campgrounds, then over to the big city on the Italian "boot", and think back to the early Christians who were trying to live in a ungodly city. "Take up and Read!" Bye-for-now.
  #27  
Old 11-07-2008, 08:06 AM
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I'm 23 and grew up in Church (all different kinds) and just got saved earlier this year. I am currently reading through the Bible. I don't get anything out of reading just a verse or two really.
  #28  
Old 11-07-2008, 01:51 PM
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Originally Posted by aussiemama View Post
I'm 23 and grew up in Church (all different kinds) and just got saved earlier this year. I am currently reading through the Bible. I don't get anything out of reading just a verse or two really.
Aussiemama, as a young Christian, you have just begun your walk with Christ and you’ll have many questions along life’s journey. Some, I might add, may never be answered. I’ve been a Christian now for nearly 30 years and have a lot of questions that I still do not have answers for. Brother George, (who also participates in this Forum) has been saved for 50 years and he still has questions about certain passages.

Above all else, I want to encourage you to purpose and resolve in your heart to know and love Jesus Christ. Do not “leave” your first love. It is the will of God the Father, that Jesus Christ [God the Son] be first in all things. That He has the preeminence in all things and that all fullness dwells in Him. Whatever you do in the Christian life, little sister, do this one thing—love and know Jesus Christ.
Colossians 1:18-19 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;

2 Peter 3:18 But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.
You have asked a difficult question. As you see, there are different answers provided by true fellow believers who love Jesus Christ. You’ll get that your entire Christian life. Although we should seek, and value, the counsel and instruction of others, ultimately, we must understand we are just as capable of understanding God’s word, because we also have the Holy Spirit abiding in us. So I want to encourage you to always remain humble, teachable, and trust God to open your eyes of spiritual understanding through His word.

Regarding your question, our human mind and human reasoning will prevent us from reconciling the “hatred” of God with the “love” of God. This is a doctrine that we must believe and accept because the word of God teaches both aspects of God’s nature. In other words, I encourage you to live the Christian life the same way you entered the Christian life—by grace through faith.
Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

2 Timothy 1:13 Hold fast the form of sound words, which thou hast heard of me, in faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.

2 Timothy 3:15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Romans 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
As born again believers, we have received the forgiveness of sin and the tender mercies of God, we have been delivered from the condemnation and wrath of God, we were once the enemies of God, but have been reconciled with Him by grace through faith in Christ. Because of these undeserved blessings and gifts of God, it is very difficult for us to believe that the Holy Scriptures clearly teach God hates the workers of iniquity, the wicked, and him that loveth violence. But they do.
Psalms 5:4-6 For thou art not a God that hath pleasure in wickedness: neither shall evil dwell with thee. The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity. Thou shalt destroy them that speak leasing: the LORD will abhor the bloody and deceitful man.

Psalms 11:4-7 The LORD is in his holy temple, the LORD'S throne is in heaven: his eyes behold, his eyelids try, the children of men. The LORD trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth. Upon the wicked he shall rain snares, fire and brimstone, and an horrible tempest: this shall be the portion of their cup. For the righteous LORD loveth righteousness; his countenance doth behold the upright.
Scripture also clearly teaches us that God loves “sinners” and has a wonderful plan for their life. I actually trusted the Lord Jesus Christ in college in 1979, through the ministry of Campus Crusade for Christ. Who taught that God loves me and has a wonderful plan for my life.
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. What love and what a plan for my life!

1 John 4:9 In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him. What love and what a plan for my life!

Romans 5:8-10 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life. What love and what a plan for my life!

1 John 3:1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not. What love and what a plan for my life!

Ephesians 2:4-7 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved) And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. What love and what a plan for my life!
So in scripture we see both God’s righteous hate, and God’s righteous love. (Brother Parrish did a good job explaining this.)
  #29  
Old 11-07-2008, 04:31 PM
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Originally Posted by aussiemama View Post
It seems that there are passages in the Bible that teach that God hates sinners. I don't like that idea, but it appears to be Biblical. My whole life I had heard that "God hates the sin, not the sinner" but somewhere in Psalms it says that God hates sinners. What is the truth on this matter?
Hi every one I am new here and din,t know how to introduce myself but found a subject that has been close to my heart. This phrase God loves the sinner but hates the sinnner in my veiw is unbiblical and came about of a feel good statment that really didn,t say anything. For what is in a sinner but sin (Eph 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins. or Ps 7:11 God judgeth the righteous, and God is angry with the wicked every day.
Note it doesn,t say God is angry with "wickedness" as in the cliche but wicked! every day. I hope this help to bring us back to God rightfull thinking
Regards s.o.e
  #30  
Old 11-08-2008, 01:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Spirit of Elijah. View Post
This phrase God loves the sinner but hates the sinnner in my veiw is unbiblical and came about of a feel good statment that really didn,t say anything. Note it doesn,t say God is angry with "wickedness" as in the cliche but wicked! every day. I hope this help to bring us back to God rightfull thinking. Regards s.o.e
Welcome. If you have not done so, you may want to carefully read all of the comments on this particular thread for the Biblical support of both God's love and hate for a sinner..

What about...

Psalms 5:4-6 For thou art not a God that hath pleasure in wickedness: neither shall evil dwell with thee. The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity. Thou shalt destroy them that speak leasing: the LORD will abhor the bloody and deceitful man.

Psalms 11:4-7 The LORD is in his holy temple, the LORD'S throne is in heaven: his eyes behold, his eyelids try, the children of men. The LORD trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth. Upon the wicked he shall rain snares, fire and brimstone, and an horrible tempest: this shall be the portion of their cup. For the righteous LORD loveth righteousness; his countenance doth behold the upright.
 

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