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  #11  
Old 02-28-2008, 05:43 AM
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You will need to get an umabridged Webster's dictionary to get every meaning. most of the everyday Webster's are edited and alot of meaning are removed because they feel they are arcahic or no longer used. Even the 1827for bible versions is edited it doesn't have all the meanings. I hae one from Christian Technologis and it is very limited compared to my Un abridged Websters which includes all the meanings form the original 1821, 1824 and 1827 version
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  #12  
Old 03-01-2008, 09:58 PM
sting of truth
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christianbook.com should have almost all the dictionaries listed in this thread, but now i do haveaquestion about a few things in the kjv that were presented to me, and i would like others input

1 cor. 13 translates agape as charity, but john 21 translates it as love.
shouldn't it be love and not charity?


and john 21 translates poimainō and bosko as "feed".. i know that these two words have different meanings, but wouldn't it have been easier if they would have translated poimainō as "pastor, or shepherd"?
in other words
shouldn't "feed" in verse john 21:16 be shepherd or something along those lines
  #13  
Old 03-01-2008, 10:23 PM
jerry
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Agape means love. According to Matthew Henry, the KJV translators used the word charity to indicate when the context was referring to both love towards God AND towards man, whereas when they translated it specifically as love, only one of the two was in view.

It makes more sense to tell Peter to feed His sheep than to say be a shepherd to them. This focusses more on what he was to do with the believers, rather than his vocation (ie. spiritual shepherd).
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Old 03-01-2008, 10:27 PM
sting of truth
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jerry View Post
Agape means love. According to Matthew Henry, the KJV translators used the word charity to indicate when the context was referring to both love towards God AND towards man, whereas when they translated it specifically as love, only one of the two was in view.

It makes more sense to tell Peter to feed His sheep than to say be a shepherd to them. This focusses more on what he was to do with the believers, rather than his vocation (ie. spiritual shepherd).
but if you look at verse 16 AND 17, you see it is repeated. verse 16 refers to pastoring them, and verse17 is refering to feeding them. verse 15 refers to lambs, not sheep

Joh 21:16-17
(16) He saith to him again the second time, Simon, son of Jona, lovest thou me? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my sheep.
(17) He saith unto him the third time, Simon, son of Jona, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved because he said unto him the third time, Lovest thou me? And he said unto him, Lord, thou knowest all things; thou knowest that I love thee. Jesus saith unto him, Feed my sheep.
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Old 03-02-2008, 06:31 AM
jerry
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Repetition is God's way of emphasizing something in His Word. Peter denied Jesus three times, so three times Jesus calls him back to work.
  #16  
Old 03-02-2008, 02:24 PM
sting of truth
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Originally Posted by jerry View Post
Repetition is God's way of emphasizing something in His Word. Peter denied Jesus three times, so three times Jesus calls him back to work.
but then you're missing the difference in the 15th verse and the other 2. i think you, just like me, am stumped..

Joh 21:15 So when they had dined, Jesus saith to Simon Peter, Simon, son of Jona, lovest agape thou me more than these? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love phileo thee. He saith unto him, Feed boskomy lambs arnion.

Joh 21:16 He saith to him again the second time, Simon, son of Jona, lovest agape thou me? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love phileo thee. He saith unto him, Feed poimainō my sheep probaton.


Joh 21:17 He saith unto him the third time, Simon, son of Jona, lovest phileo thou me? Peter was grieved because he said unto him the third time, Lovest phileo thou me? And he said unto him, Lord, thou knowest all things; thou knowest that I love phileo thee. Jesus saith unto him, Feed bosko my sheep probaton .

  #17  
Old 03-02-2008, 02:30 PM
sting of truth
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basically my question concerns poimaino being translated as charity in 1 cor. 13 which you explained well, meaning it's a deep complete God sized love for God and people,

and the one that still gets me is poimano in john 21:16 being translated as feed when everything i've read has it listed as shepherd or something to that affect..

the sheep in 16-17 are different than in 15 and that is duely noted. however feed in these three verses take on 2 different meanings.
  #18  
Old 03-02-2008, 02:41 PM
jerry
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I didn't miss anything. God was re-emphasizing Peter's call to be a pastor - but He was bringing out different things: dealing with lambs (young believers) and sheep (mature believers).

The word for "feed" in "feed my lambs" means "to pasture; by extension to, fodder; reflexively, to graze." This obviously refers to giving them the milk of the Word, providing food for them.

The other word means " to tend as a shepherd of (figuratively, superviser)." This is referring to the older believers, and teaching he needs to watch over them, supervise, shepherd them - but obviously in the context of feeding them spiritually.

The first word is used again in the third reference to "feed my sheep," indicating even mature believers need to be led to grazing at times as well.
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Old 03-02-2008, 02:50 PM
sting of truth
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jerry View Post
I didn't miss anything. God was re-emphasizing Peter's call to be a pastor - but He was bringing out different things: dealing with lambs (young believers) and sheep (mature believers).

The word for "feed" in "feed my lambs" means "to pasture; by extension to, fodder; reflexively, to graze." This obviously refers to giving them the milk of the Word, providing food for them.

The other word means " to tend as a shepherd of (figuratively, superviser)." This is referring to the older believers, and teaching he needs to watch over them, supervise, shepherd them - but obviously in the context of feeding them spiritually.

The first word is used again in the third reference to "feed my sheep," indicating even mature believers need to be led to grazing at times as well.
and thats where the question arises.. feed in verse 16 means to pastor, or shepherd, not to feed only.. thats the main quarrel i am facing
  #20  
Old 03-02-2008, 04:32 PM
jerry
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What is the problem? If you believe the KJV is God's Word, then it is obvious that the kind of shepherding God is referring to is feeding the flock (ie. focussing more on that aspect of shepherding, rather than all aspects). The KJV translators believed this was the best translation of that word in this particular context.
 

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