Bible Versions Questions and discussion about the Bible version issue.

 
 
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Old 02-12-2008, 12:07 PM
gilbaka
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Default KJV with or without references?

Hi there. I'm writing from NYC. This is my first time on this forum and I've been reading the KJV for many years now. I recently came across a website that does not recommend the KJV with center/side column references since only the text is inspired. They believe one should read just the pure text of the KJV. I'm wondering what is your take on this suggestion? I was convinced enough to purchase a text only KJV published by, I believe, Trinitarian Bible Society.
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Old 02-12-2008, 01:19 PM
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Diligent Diligent is offline
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KJB believers do not regard margin content (footnotes and references) as inspired text. If there is a chance that such text could distract someone from the pure words of God, they ought to get a printing that doesn't contain it.
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Old 02-12-2008, 03:15 PM
jerry
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Any notes or cross-references in a margin are simply a tool - some are good, some are not, and some are a mixture of both. If you use any study tools, compare what they say with the Bible itself. For example, using a cross-reference - make sure the other passage is referring to the same person, place, thing, or subject - otherwise it is not a good reference. For example, comparing 1 Thessalonians 4 (the passage about the rapture) with 1 Corinthians 15 (about being changed at the rapture) is a good reference - comparing it with the gathering of the Jews worldwide in Matthew is not, as that confuses the issue and has led many to think that Matthew 24:31 is also referring to the rapture (and therefore it must occur sometime during the Tribulation period) when it is not.

I love having a wide margin Bible where I can write my own cross-references as I find them myself. Then I know the context and that both passages are related - and that it is not just a reference put there to push someone's theological view when it truly doesn't fit.
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Old 02-12-2008, 06:38 PM
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Wait a minute Jerry, if Matthew 24:31 isn't talking about the rapture, then what is it talking about?

And since we're on the topic of cross-references, my re-printing of the 1611 referred me to
I Corinthians 15:32 "If after the maner of men I have fought with beasts at Ephesus, what aduantageth it me, if the dead rise not? Let vs eate and drink, for to morrowe wee die."
and
I Thessalonians 4:16 "For the Lord himselfe shall descend rom heaven with a shout, with the voyce of th Archangel, and with the trumpe of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first."


???
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Old 02-12-2008, 07:02 PM
jerry
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I am Pre-Trib and believe that the rapture of the church is before the Tribulation period, and I am firmly convinced that Matthew 24:31 is referring to gathering the Jews to Jerusalem near the end of the Tribulation period - so they are not speaking about the same gathering at all (though they both are talking about gathering of believers).

As far as the two references go that you mentioned, they may be linked together because they are both referring to the resurrection.
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Old 02-12-2008, 07:34 PM
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I'm pre-trib as well, but this still confuses me. The verse before this speaks of jesus's return as he rides on a cloud (verse 30), and there is a mighty trumpet sounded while he gathers his elect with wind from the four corners of the earth.

I'm not trying to argue, I'm just confused what you mean.

I think I Thessalonians talks about a different resurrection than that of Christ, such as the resurrection of the dead before the rapture, what makes you think otherwise?
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Old 02-12-2008, 08:06 PM
jerry
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paladin54 View Post
I'm pre-trib as well, but this still confuses me. The verse before this speaks of jesus's return as he rides on a cloud (verse 30), and there is a mighty trumpet sounded while he gathers his elect with wind from the four corners of the earth.
Matthew 24 is speaking about events within the Tribulation. If verse 31 is referring to the rapture, then it is not pre-trib, but closer to post-trib. The term "elect" is referring to those who are saved - during this age, it refers to Christ's body, the church - but during the tribulation it is referring to those Jews who get saved sometime during it.

Romans 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

Quote:
I think I Thessalonians talks about a different resurrection than that of Christ, such as the resurrection of the dead before the rapture, what makes you think otherwise?
1 Thessalonians 4 is referring to the gathering of all believers, both living and dead, at the rapture. Those that have already died are raised up and the living believers will be caught up together with them. Then the tribulation will start sometime shortly after that.
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Old 02-12-2008, 08:32 PM
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Ok, now I understand what you mean about matthew 24,


And we agree regarding I Thessalonians, somehow I didn't see it.
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Old 02-12-2008, 08:44 PM
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Another example of faulty linking is seen when some Bibles link Genesis 1:2 with a passage in Jeremiah 4 and in Isaiah (can't remember the reference offhand) - to teach the Gap Theory. However, if the other two are studied out, it is revealed that it was referring to a future judgment (ie. after the time they were written) when God would judge men, not some prior judgment on some pre-creation earth when angels were supposedly judged (according to their theory).
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Old 02-14-2008, 07:38 AM
ok.book.guy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jerry View Post
Another example of faulty linking is seen when some Bibles link Genesis 1:2 with a passage in Jeremiah 4 and in Isaiah (can't remember the reference offhand) - to teach the Gap Theory. However, if the other two are studied out, it is revealed that it was referring to a future judgment (ie. after the time they were written) when God would judge men, not some prior judgment on some pre-creation earth when angels were supposedly judged (according to their theory).
Isa 45:18 is the reference used to teach the erroneous "gap" theory.

I used to be VERY big on study bibles and at least center column references. I never thought the notes or the references were inspired. I just used them to pieces.

After decades of using them though, I had to realize that I never got through much continuous reading because I was always using these references to chase down rabbits. I defended bunny chasing back then. But for the past 4 1/2 years I have been using a wonderful KJV w/o any helps, references, notes, columns, alternate renderings, alt readings, etc etc etc. . . .

And I just LOVE it!!!!!!!!!!!! I was saying just the other day what a major impact this has had on my sense of "hearing from God". It has increased my faith (more of the word in me) it has increased my longing for heaven, it has lifted my heart and my mind to things above where Christ sitteth!

I have a large print so it sorta has wider margins than normal (not an outright wide margin). I put in lots of references for myself (which gives me training in finding and remembering where these references are).

Now, once I finish a really good reading session, then I lay back and think back over what I read. AFter awhile I hit on what it is that I'm really not getting. Then I go to a conservative commentary (usually JFB because its quick and gets me right to where I was needing help. But sometimes John Gill because of its depth).

The quick commentary check usually helps me resolve what I was missing. Other times nothing gets me there until I've sought the Lord for it. I have recent examples of this but I'll not mention them here unless someone asks.

When I do refer to a commentary or other help, its always of the electronic variety. A believing bible study software package like Sword Searcher or E-Sword is a very terrific way to go.

Last edited by ok.book.guy; 02-14-2008 at 07:42 AM.
 

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