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Old 08-25-2008, 01:12 PM
Beltfed_0331 Beltfed_0331 is offline
 
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Default Believers view of sin

Although I do not reply to often, and this is my first thread, I frequently visit and enjoy all the information shared by Bible believers. I have found it hard lately to be able to scripturally describe the feeling we should have towards sin. Many believe the Bible, go to church, and live their normal lives. Most even pray regularly, confessing their sins as they should. I read in many discussions the issue of eternal security. I believe that once saved, always saved as many put it. Still there is the issue that many believers do not think much about committing sins. I have tried to compare how sin was viewed in the Old Testament with today’s view. The Old Testament teaches that you must sacrifice your animal, or trade the equivalent of, to God for forgiveness. Even children understand that if it meant you must sacrifice your pet for stealing then this would be a deterrent from stealing. But what about today? I feel that when we realize the price that was paid for our sins and realize what Christ had to endure for us then this is more than enough of a deterrent from sin. Many still do not understand how severe sin can be to our lives as well as the lives around us. Many feel that this sin is only a little sin and they do not feel or see how important it is to stay holy. Before heading into many scriptures concerning the penalty for sins in a Christian life I am interested in this group thoughts on how to pursued fellow Christians to stay away from sin regardless of temptation by realizing its affect on us. Thank you
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Old 08-25-2008, 02:49 PM
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I've seen the effects of flippant sin in my life, and I regret every moment of it.

If a Christian isn't willing to see their own sin as God sees it, God will show it to them.

My life verse right now is

Psa 38:1 <A Psalm of David, to bring to remembrance.> O LORD, rebuke me not in thy wrath: neither chasten me in thy hot displeasure.
Psa 38:2 For thine arrows stick fast in me, and thy hand presseth me sore.
Psa 38:3 There is no soundness in my flesh because of thine anger; neither is there any rest in my bones because of my sin.
Psa 38:4 For mine iniquities are gone over mine head: as an heavy burden they are too heavy for me.
Psa 38:5 My wounds stink and are corrupt because of my foolishness.
Psa 38:6 I am troubled; I am bowed down greatly; I go mourning all the day long.
Psa 38:7 For my loins are filled with a loathsome disease: and there is no soundness in my flesh.
Psa 38:8 I am feeble and sore broken: I have roared by reason of the disquietness of my heart.
Psa 38:9 Lord, all my desire is before thee; and my groaning is not hid from thee.


Praise the Lord the end of that Psalm is

Psa 38:21 Forsake me not, O LORD: O my God, be not far from me.
Psa 38:22 Make haste to help me, O Lord my salvation.
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Old 08-25-2008, 03:10 PM
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Forrest Forrest is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beltfed_0331 View Post
...how to pursued fellow Christians to stay away from sin regardless of temptation by realizing its affect on us. Thank you
What a good, and important question, Brother "Beltfed". I appreciate your sensitivity to "sin" and its affect on, and in, our lives. Personally, I also hate sin and long for the glorious day we are delivered from its very presence.

For me, real practical and experiential victory (not that I've stopped sinning in thoughts, words, or deeds by any means) came when I was awakened to the power and provision of Jesus Christ. When the Lord Jesus Christ really became my Lord Jesus Christ. It changed my view and counsel to fellow believers regarding sin.

First, let me say that I do believe all sin is unrighteousness and, therefore, never pleases our Father in Heaven. So please know that, like you, I also loathe it. As true believers, we are never comfortable with sin and certainly never float through life without receiving chastisement from our loving Heavenly Father.

How do I persuade others to stay away from sin, regardless of temptation?

First, I teach them to appropriate, by faith, the certain realities that belong to every believer, who is in Christ.

"And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool. For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before, This is the covenant [the New Covenant] that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more" (Hebrews 10:11-17).

Jesus Christ has dealt with my sin, once and forever! Praise be to God for His mercy and grace. Believe it.

How do I persuade others to stay away from sin, regardless of temptation?


Second, I teach them to appropriate, by faith, the certain realities that belong to every believer, who is in Christ.

"There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it" (1 Corinthians 10:13). Personally, I believe that Jesus is the way of escape.

"But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen (2 Peter 3:18).
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Old 08-25-2008, 03:36 PM
peopleoftheway peopleoftheway is offline
 
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Well put Luke and thats a lovely psalm, Well explained forrest I agree that the LORD will never allow us to bear more than we are able.
I too hate sin, I too am more aware of sin as a Born again Christian. I have a new radar as such for sin, where before I didn't think I was doing anything particularly wrong but The grace of Our LORD Jesus showed me different, for example music choice, some of the music I was listening to was sinful, secular and wrong but conviction led me to leave that behind, every day I discover something about sin in my life that I didn't realise was sin, before salvation, and I am more than sure that this will continue until the LORD calls me Home or comes for us. I long for the day when we are raised incorruptible, finally removed from the shackles of sin, what beautiful heights of ecstasy we will reach!
As for dealing with the temptation, I just get on my Knees and ask for the strength and mercy to overcome the tempter, and when I stumble I get up and try again.
For a just man falleth seven times, and riseth up again: but the wicked shall fall into mischief. Prov 24:16
I find comfort in a verse from Jeremiah and Proverbs regarding correction of my sins.

Jeremiah 10:23.24
O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it is not in man that walketh to direct his steps.
O LORD, correct me, but with judgment; not in thine anger, lest thou bring me to nothing.

Proverbs 3:11,12
My son, despise not the chastening of the LORD; neither be weary of his correction:
For whom the LORD loveth he correcteth; even as a father the son in whom he delighteth.

Last edited by peopleoftheway; 08-25-2008 at 03:54 PM. Reason: I chose a terrible font
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Old 08-25-2008, 03:52 PM
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Debau Debau is offline
 
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Quote:
I am interested in this group thoughts on how to pursued fellow Christians to stay away from sin regardless of temptation by realizing its affect on us.
Maybe by begging them to read their Bible, and get some good teaching and preaching on the judgment seat of Christ and presumptious sin.

2 Corinthians 5:10-11 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
11 Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.

Hebrews 10:26-31 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.



(Commentary on Heb 10:26-31
by David Sorenson)

The writer reminds his Jewish readers how that under the
law of Moses, there was no specific sacrifice for willful sin. (See
Numbers 15:30-31 and Deuteronomy 17:12.) Rather, such an
one under the law faced severe punishment, even death.
He then asks his readers to consider how much more
serious it is for one to in effect trod “under foot the Son of God,”
and count “the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was
sanctified an unholy thing?” The question is rhetorical. The
answer is obvious. If willful disregard of the law of Moses was
serious business, rejecting Christ is even more. Ignoring and
rejecting Christ is doing “despite unto the Spirit of grace.” The
word translated as despite (enubrizw enubridzo) has the sense
of ‘insulting.’ When one turns his back on Christ, rejecting
Him, he also has insulted the Holy Spirit. That is serious
business, approaching the blasphemy of the Holy Ghost. There
is a parallel here with the thought presented in Hebrews 6:4-6.
The writer proceeds to remind his readers of the gravity of
such departure by quoting from Deuteronomy 32:35, Psalm
135:14, and alludes to Psalm 76:7. The God of heaven is not
dead or absentee. He is very much alive. He, in His providence,
may judge. Indeed, “it is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of
the living God.”
  #6  
Old 08-25-2008, 07:28 PM
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stephanos stephanos is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peopleoftheway View Post
Well put Luke and thats a lovely psalm, Well explained forrest I agree that the LORD will never allow us to bear more than we are able.
I too hate sin, I too am more aware of sin as a Born again Christian. I have a new radar as such for sin, where before I didn't think I was doing anything particularly wrong but The grace of Our LORD Jesus showed me different, for example music choice, some of the music I was listening to was sinful, secular and wrong but conviction led me to leave that behind, every day I discover something about sin in my life that I didn't realise was sin, before salvation, and I am more than sure that this will continue until the LORD calls me Home or comes for us. I long for the day when we are raised incorruptible, finally removed from the shackles of sin, what beautiful heights of ecstasy we will reach!
As for dealing with the temptation, I just get on my Knees and ask for the strength and mercy to overcome the tempter, and when I stumble I get up and try again.
For a just man falleth seven times, and riseth up again: but the wicked shall fall into mischief. Prov 24:16
I find comfort in a verse from Jeremiah and Proverbs regarding correction of my sins.

Jeremiah 10:23.24
O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it is not in man that walketh to direct his steps.
O LORD, correct me, but with judgment; not in thine anger, lest thou bring me to nothing.

Proverbs 3:11,12
My son, despise not the chastening of the LORD; neither be weary of his correction:
For whom the LORD loveth he correcteth; even as a father the son in whom he delighteth.
Man, isn't that verse from Jeremiah so true! I have felt time and time again that one of these days God will deal with me in His consuming anger. I've feared it all the days I've walked in Christ Jesus. However, I know that in Christ Jesus there is now no condemnation since my sins have been seperated from me. None the less it is still a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God!

for His sake,
Stephen

EDIT: By the way, Luke that is such a heart wrenching Scripture. I nearly cried thinking of David and his struggle with sin. Like David, I can't wait to be done with this grave of a body, and be in the presence of Almighty God someday!
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Old 08-25-2008, 08:07 PM
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chette777 chette777 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Debau View Post
Hebrews 10:26-31 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
Being Fair Debau. This is a verse that is used to support the loss of Salvation doctrine. But that doctrinal Application is isolated to the preparation for the kingdom in most parts of the Gospels and up untilActs 9. and as found from Hebrews through Revelation.

however it has it's Spiritual application for us today in that as you quoted will stand befor the judgement seat of Christ. we will suffer loss of rewards or lack of them, weakness, sickness and sleep (death) according to 1Cor 11:30. But not lose our salvation.

Those in the great Tribulation under the Kingdom Gospel doctrine do sin wilfully and deny Christ suffeiceincy. But their Gospel though has all the qualities of grace does require works to accompany and that would be not to sin. and as such they could lose their salvation.

so Hebrews may apply today in the Spiritual Application. it cannot be implied today that there is loss of Salvation for the one who sins. Your own life bears witness to that.
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Old 08-25-2008, 09:40 PM
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Debau Debau is offline
 
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Being fair here too Chette,

I do not believe this is doctrine for the Kingdom. Hebrews is addressed to saved Jews, and perhaps some unsaved that usually accompany a church.

Hebrews 3:1 Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;

Hebrews 4:2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

Hebrews 6:9 But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak.
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Old 08-25-2008, 10:34 PM
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chette777 chette777 is offline
 
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Yes it was Historically written to the professing Jews prior to Pauls revelation of the Mysteries of the church and salvation by faith alone wihtout works. thsoe Jews were saved under the Kingdom Gopsel by Christ and by Peter in Acts 2.

dispensationally it is to beleiving Jews in the Tribulation to come also. you need only see what Gospel was taught to HEBREWS ONLY. the Gospel of the Kingdom which was faith on Christ PLUS WORKS.

spiritually it will apply to us only inthe application to refrain from sinfulness in our lives. BUT NO LOSS OF SALVATION.

Research your Bible you will find three Gospels inthe NT. the Gospel of the Kingdom, the Gospel of Christ and the Everlasting Gospel. Things that are different are not the same.
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Old 08-26-2008, 01:14 AM
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Debau Debau is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chette777 View Post
Yes it was Historically written to the professing Jews prior to Pauls revelation of the Mysteries of the church and salvation by faith alone wihtout works. thsoe Jews were saved under the Kingdom Gopsel by Christ and by Peter in Acts 2.

dispensationally it is to beleiving Jews in the Tribulation to come also. you need only see what Gospel was taught to HEBREWS ONLY. the Gospel of the Kingdom which was faith on Christ PLUS WORKS.

spiritually it will apply to us only inthe application to refrain from sinfulness in our lives. BUT NO LOSS OF SALVATION.

Research your Bible you will find three Gospels inthe NT. the Gospel of the Kingdom, the Gospel of Christ and the Everlasting Gospel. Things that are different are not the same.
I do believe in dividing the Gospels, but do not find any scriptural (doctrinal) evidence that Hebrews was written for any economy other than the Gospel of grace and the revealed mystery preached to Jews and Gentiles. The evidence of the historocity of Hebrews points to sometime between the first and second imprisoment in Rome of Paul, of whom is the likely human author, penned by his scribe Timothy. In no way was there any implication of loss of salvation.

Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty; with whom, if he come shortly, I will see you.

(from Italy)
Hebrews 13:24 Salute all them that have the rule over you, and all the saints. They of Italy salute you.

Hebrews 13:25 Grace be with you all. Amen. <<Written to the Hebrews from Italy by Timothy.>>

(in prison)
Hebrews 10:34 For ye had compassion of me in my bonds, and took joyfully the spoiling of your goods, knowing in yourselves that ye have in heaven a better and an enduring substance.
 

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