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  #21  
Old 03-04-2008, 07:10 AM
Pastor Mikie
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Acts 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

Acts 2:11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.

Acts 10:46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,

Acts 19:6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

1 Corinthians 12:10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:

1 Corinthians 14:18 I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:

1 Corinthians 14:39 Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.

1 Corinthians 14:14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.



To answer your questions:
I don't know what languages I'm speaking. I hardly ever speak in tongues publicly. Mostly when I'm praying.

The other questions are answered by the Scriptures I've posted. Fortunately, the gifts are from God, not men. So, since God gave the gift, man can't take them away. So, if you believe tongues aren't for today, that is your right. But I know what I've received from the Lord is real. Tongues has been a very useful tool used by God. And yes, it is entirely possible to meet someone from another foreign country and have the Holy Ghost enable you to speak in that language. It has happened. Even in modern times.

1 Corinthians 12:11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.


Don't let those who abuse it keep you from something that is quite real.
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  #22  
Old 03-04-2008, 08:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pastor Mikie View Post
I don't know what languages I'm speaking. I hardly ever speak in tongues publicly. Mostly when I'm praying.
1 Corinthians 14:15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.

1 Corinthians 14:19 Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.

You speak in tongues when you pray? And you don't understand?
Rule 1. Pray WITH UNDERSTANDING.
Rule 2. SPEAK five words WITH YOUR UNDERSTANDING.
Rule 3. SILENCE is not SPEAKING. Silent praying is NOT speaking in tongues.
Rule 4. Speaking in tongues for the benefit of the listener.
Rule 5. Review all the rules posted before. The bias is in your mind. You even did not address any single verse posted concerning rules for tongues speaking.
  #23  
Old 03-04-2008, 09:12 AM
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Choosing selected passages and ignoring the context of the plain English is the problem.

Acts 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
Acts 2:8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?
9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,
10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes
,
11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.

Tongues were spoken to and understood by the audience. Peter never spoke to himself and no one did not hear him and no one did not understand him.

Acts 10:46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,

It was not a silent praying. It was heard for it was SPOKEN.

Acts 19:6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

It was heard. There was no "silent speaking" in tongues.

1 Corinthians 12:10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:

What divers kinds of tongues did you speak? Cretian, Arabian, Mesopotamian, etc.? What is the interpretation?

1 Corinthians 14:18 I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:

Speaking in tongues is not a choice. It is a gift for a specific purpose. Paul spoke in tongues as a sign of his apostleship and to reach the Jew, for it is a sign to the Jew. [Now, ignore these verses again and call it bias.]
2 Corinthians 12:12 Truly the signs of an apostle were wrought among you in all patience, in signs, and wonders, and mighty deeds.
1 Corinthians 1:22 For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:
1 Corinthians 14:21 In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.
22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.

I do not speak in tongues not because I do not want to. I do not have it.
1 Corinthians 12:30 Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?
If you have it, talk to me in Hiligaynon.

1 Corinthians 14:39 Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.
1 Corinthians 14:34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.
1 Corinthians 14:28 But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.
1 Corinthians 13:8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.

1 Corinthians 14:14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.
1 Corinthians 14:15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.

Again, tongues are a SIGN for Israel:
Acts 2:5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.
14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:
22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; ...
29 Men and brethren, ...
36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly,...

Last edited by Biblestudent; 03-04-2008 at 09:17 AM. Reason: delete portion
  #24  
Old 03-04-2008, 09:34 AM
Pastor Mikie
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In Acts chapter 2:1 - 4 they were in the upper room when they first spoke in tongues and no one but the 120 were present. Since they were praying in the upper room, the tongues was praying in the spirit as the Spirit gave them utterance. Then in verse 5 and on, they were not in the upper room anymore and others heard the Gospel in their own language "wherein they were born".

I never said I ONLY pray in tongues. Like Paul, I pray in the spirit and the understanding also.

Let's face it, you not only do not want to speak in tongues, you don't want me to, either.
Why? It says in 1 Corinthians 14:39 Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues..

Does the fact I believe it is for today and understand the Scriptures the way I do threaten you in some way? I got saved when I repented of my sins and asked Jesus to be Lord of my life in 1973. In 1975, believing as you do, God baptized me in the Holy Ghost (naturally, I searched the Scriptures when this happened so as not to be in error, and found how I was taught was not accurate). Now, a number of Christians think I've become an alien or a wizard or something because I've received this gift.

You keep trying to trip me up and convince me I'm doing something wrong. Each time I have a Biblical answer and you throw the same stuff back at me. That's fine. But I don't think you are hearing me.

1 Corinthians 14:38 But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.

Last edited by Pastor Mikie; 03-04-2008 at 09:39 AM.
  #25  
Old 03-04-2008, 09:42 AM
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...If tongues was a sign for Israel (I'm assuming you mean exclusively), how do you explain Acts 10 & 11?

Acts 10:46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God.

These were gentiles.
  #26  
Old 03-04-2008, 09:47 AM
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QUOTE=Pastor Mikie;1269]
You aren't going to talk me out of it. It's in the Bible in plain English as far as I'm concerned. You have no solid Biblical proof that the "sign gifts (as you call them)" have been taken away. ...

This caused me to search the Scriptures profusely. I objectively could not see where God ever removed the gifts of the Holy Ghost from the church. You might accuse me of getting my theoloy from experience and not the Scriptures. That's not true. I tested my experience with the Scriptures and found that it was Biblical.
[/QUOTE]

Solid proofs why "sign gifts" have been taken away after A.D. 96. (1 Cor. 13:10;Rev. 22:18,19).
1. BOTH tongues and healing are "signs" (Mark 16:16-18; 1 Cor. 12:30; 1 Cor. 1:22; 1 Cor. 14:22).
2. Tongues shall cease (1 Cor. 13) and have ceased together with healing after the Acts period. Later in his ministry, Paul no longer can heal (1 Tim. 4:20) and starts giving prescription (1 Tim 5:23).
3. Did Polycarp speak in tongues? Did he heal? Solid evidence please if he did.
4. Did Ireneaus speak in tongues? Did he heal?
5. Did Ignatius speak in tongues? Did he heal?
6. Did Tertullian speak in tongues? Did he heal?
7. Did Chrysostom speak in tongues? Did he heal?
8. Did the Paulicians speak in tongues? Did they heal?
9. Did the Bogomiles speak in tongues? Did they heal?
10. Did the Waldensians speak in tongues? Did they heal?
11. Did the Anabaptists speak in tongues? Did they heal?
12. Did John Wycliff speak in tongues? Did he heal?
13. Did William Tyndale speak in tongues? Did he heal?
14. Did Martin Luther speak in tongues? Did he heal?
15. Did John Calvin speak in tongues?Did he heal?
16. Did Lancelot Andrews speak in tongues? Sure he did! But it was a natural gift and he had to study them. He didn't have it supernaturally. Did he heal?
17. Did Spurgeon speak in tongues? Did he heal?
18. Did George Whitefield speak in tongues? Did he heal?
19. Did Moody speak in tongues? Did he heal?
20. Do you really speak in tongues?
Do you heal? We need you here.
  #27  
Old 03-04-2008, 09:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pastor Mikie View Post
...If tongues was a sign for Israel (I'm assuming you mean exclusively), how do you explain Acts 10 & 11?

Acts 10:46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God.

These were gentiles.
The Gentiles spoke in tongues as a sign to Peter (a Jew) and to the JEWS who were with him. In Acts 10-11, God is showing Peter that he is changing his program - from the Law/Kingdom Program where the Jew is first to the Grace/Church Program where there is neither Jew nor Gentile. There is no tongues speaking in a purely Gentile congregation. That's a solid proof.
  #28  
Old 03-04-2008, 10:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pastor Mikie View Post
Let's face it, you not only do not want to speak in tongues, you don't want me to, either.
Why? It says in 1 Corinthians 14:39 Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues..

Does the fact I believe it is for today and understand the Scriptures the way I do threaten you in some way? I got saved when I repented of my sins and asked Jesus to be Lord of my life in 1973. In 1975, believing as you do, God baptized me in the Holy Ghost (naturally, I searched the Scriptures when this happened so as not to be in error, and found how I was taught was not accurate).
1. No one is forbidding you to speak in tongues. The problem is you are not following the purpose and guidelines for speaking in tongues, and there is no solid proof either that you have the gift of tongues as the Bible describes it. I repeat some of them:
a. Tongues is to convince an unbelieving Jew.
b. Tongues are an exclusive sign for the Jew. The nation started with signs (Exodus 3) and have always asked for signs since then.
c. No woman is to speak in tongues.
d. Nobody should speak in tongues without an interpreter.
e. Tongues and healing go together, all along with snake handling, poison drinking, and devil casting (Mark 16). If you don't have one, you don't have the other.
f. Tongues shall cease and it have ceased since the gift of healing was withdrawn. (If tongues have not ceased, when will it cease?)
g. Gentiles need no sign.
h. The Church needs no sign. We walk by faith, not by sight. Faith comes from hearing the Word of God. "In part" gifts are done away since "that which is perfect" Word of God has come.

2. There is no baptism "in" the Holy Ghost in the Bible.
a. Baptism "with" the Holy Ghost belongs to the gospel of the kingdom - for Israel.
b. Baptism "by" one Spirit "into" the body of Christ belongs to the gospel of the grace of God - for the church.

2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
  #29  
Old 03-04-2008, 12:18 PM
Pastor Mikie
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In answer to "Biblestudent":

Solid proofs why "sign gifts" have been taken away after A.D. 96. (1 Cor. 13:10;Rev. 22:18,19). That which is perfect is not identified. The whole passage has to do with the fact complete replaces the partial. Revelation 22:18 & 19 not applicable here. AD96 is pulled out of thin air.
1. BOTH tongues and healing are "signs" (Mark 16:16-18; 1 Cor. 12:30; 1 Cor. 1:22; 1 Cor. 14:22).
So what? That doesn’t show pro or con concerning tongues and healing.
2. Tongues shall cease (1 Cor. 13) and have ceased together with healing after the Acts period. Later in his ministry, Paul no longer can heal (1 Tim. 4:20) and starts giving prescription (1 Tim 5:23).
Acts period not specified in these passages. 2nd Timothy 4:20 making a statement of fact, not saying anything about Paul healing or not healing. It is the Spirit of God who imparts the gifts, not us. Telling Timothy to drink wine for his stomach isn’t Paul giving out prescriptions. 1st Corinthians 13 is the buffer between chapters 12 & 14. Silly argument. That’s about the same thing as saying Ezekiel chapter 1 is teaching UFO’s are real.
3. Did Polycarp speak in tongues? Did he heal? Solid evidence please if he did.
Don’t know – Don’t care for the sake of this discussion. Irrelevant.
4. Did Ireneaus speak in tongues? Did he heal?
Don’t know – Don’t care for the sake of this discussion. Irrelevant.
5. Did Ignatius speak in tongues? Did he heal?
Don’t know – Don’t care for the sake of this discussion. Irrelevant.
6. Did Tertullian speak in tongues? Did he heal?
Don’t know – Don’t care for the sake of this discussion. Irrelevant.
7. Did Chrysostom speak in tongues? Did he heal?
Don’t know – Don’t care for the sake of this discussion. Irrelevant.
8. Did the Paulicians speak in tongues? Did they heal?
Don’t know – Don’t care for the sake of this discussion. Irrelevant.
9. Did the Bogomiles speak in tongues? Did they heal?
Don’t know – Don’t care for the sake of this discussion. Irrelevant.
10. Did the Waldensians speak in tongues? Did they heal?
Don’t know – Don’t care for the sake of this discussion. Irrelevant.
11. Did the Anabaptists speak in tongues? Did they heal?
Don’t know – Don’t care for the sake of this discussion. Irrelevant.
12. Did John Wycliff speak in tongues? Did he heal?
Don’t know – Don’t care for the sake of this discussion. Irrelevant.
13. Did William Tyndale speak in tongues? Did he heal?
Don’t know – Don’t care for the sake of this discussion. Irrelevant.
14. Did Martin Luther speak in tongues? Did he heal?
Don’t know – Don’t care for the sake of this discussion. Irrelevant.
15. Did John Calvin speak in tongues? Did he heal?
Don’t know – Don’t care for the sake of this discussion. Irrelevant.
16. Did Lancelot Andrews speak in tongues? Sure he did! But it was a natural gift and he had to study them. He didn't have it supernaturally. Did he heal?
Don’t know – Don’t care for the sake of this discussion. Irrelevant.
17. Did Spurgeon speak in tongues? Did he heal?
Don’t know – Don’t care for the sake of this discussion. Irrelevant.
18. Did George Whitefield speak in tongues? Did he heal?
Don’t know – Don’t care for the sake of this discussion. Irrelevant.
19. Did Moody speak in tongues? Did he heal?
Don’t know – Don’t care for the sake of this discussion. Irrelevant.
20. Do you really speak in tongues? Yes I do.
21. Do you heal? No. But Jesus does. Have been healed of heart trouble. Both my wife and I have been healed by God and both have prayed for people who have been healed by God. Why doesn’t God heal everyone? Don’t know.
22. We need you here. Thank you.

You still need to show Biblically that tongues were taken away. You’ve shown me Scripture that has been interpreted by your personal bias. Someone reading those passages without having an opinion one way or the other wouldn’t come to your conclusions about the matter. Your arguments are superfluous in my opinion.
  #30  
Old 03-04-2008, 01:28 PM
Pastor Mikie
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Saying God doesn't heal today is frightening. That leaves the care of our health to ourselves or physicians. Leaving it to physicians is problematic at best, seeing they are the 3rd leading cause of death in America.

www.health-care-reform.net/causedeath.htm
 

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