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Old 05-21-2009, 01:37 PM
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34: Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
35: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
36: Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
37: Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
38: When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
39: Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
40: And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
41: Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
42: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
43: I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
44: Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
45: Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
46: And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

So, you are either damned forever, or you have eternal life, based on how you behaved towards the hungry, the thirsty, prisoners, those who need clothing, and shelter.
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Old 05-21-2009, 01:40 PM
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Default more faith with works

FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD

14: What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
15: If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
16: And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
17: Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
18: Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
19: Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
20: But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

WHAT OTHER WORKS ARE LISTED IN THE NEW TESTAMENT, THAT THE SAVED PERSON IS EXPECTED TO DO?
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Old 05-21-2009, 01:51 PM
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So, you are either damned forever, or you have eternal life, based on how you behaved towards the hungry, the thirsty, prisoners, those who need clothing, and shelter.
Do you believe a Born again Christian can lose their salvation?

Do you realise that the Book of James is addressed to "the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad"

James 1:1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.

Last edited by peopleoftheway; 05-21-2009 at 02:03 PM. Reason: which, not that
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Old 05-21-2009, 01:59 PM
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Originally Posted by biblereader View Post
FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD

14: What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
15: If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
16: And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
17: Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
18: Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
19: Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
20: But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

WHAT OTHER WORKS ARE LISTED IN THE NEW TESTAMENT, THAT THE SAVED PERSON IS EXPECTED TO DO?
Personally, I would begin here:
Colossians 2:6 As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him:

2:7 Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving.

2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

2:10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:

2:11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:

2:12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
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Old 05-21-2009, 02:40 PM
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Originally Posted by biblereader View Post
34: Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
35: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
36: Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
37: Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
38: When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
39: Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
40: And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
41: Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
42: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
43: I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
44: Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
45: Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
46: And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

So, you are either damned forever, or you have eternal life, based on how you behaved towards the hungry, the thirsty, prisoners, those who need clothing, and shelter.
Aloha biblereader,

You should check out all of my Posts on Calvinism, but the Post on "Limited Atonement" addresses the very verses that you have just cited.

http://av1611.com/forums/showpost.ph...9&postcount=45


The following citation is just a short excerpt from the entire Post (#45) - but it expounds on the verses you quoted:
Quote:
Quote:
Matthew 25:32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
FACT: The use of this verse to “prove” Calvinistic doctrine illustrates the shallow understanding that John Calvin had in regards to the Holy word of God. Let us examine the verses within their proper “CONTEXT” shall we?

Quote:
Matthew 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
{This is speaking about Christ’s return to earth to rule.}

32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, AS a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
{This is NOT speaking about Christ’s “SHEEP”! Do you see the word “AS”? The Lord is using a “simile” to explain what is going to take place (the judgment of the NATIONS) immediately after He returns to the earth, at the beginning of His Millennial reign. On the one hand (the right), The Lord Jesus Christ is explaining that those NATIONS (the sheep) who treated the Jews kindly and helped and supported them, will get to live and go into His Kingdom. While on the other hand (the left) those NATIONS (the goats) who neglected or refused to help or assist the Jews, or those NATIONS who actively opposed them are going to be sent into “everlasting fire & punishment”. Read the verses (in CONTEXT) – these verses are NOT talking about the “atonement”, or New Testament salvation, or Christ’s “SHEEP”. These are in reference to THE JUDGMENT OF THE NATIONS, which will take place immediately after the end of the Great Tribulation. This is NOT THE “Judgment Seat of Christ” (for Christians), and NEITHER is it the “Great White Throne” Judgment (for the “dead”); this is “The Judgment of the Nations”! This is “rightly dividing the word of truth” -101! Couldn’t Calvin READ? Can his “followers” READ? Please read to the end of the Chapter. Do you see anything connected to the church, Christians, or New Testament salvation?}

33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
I will say it again – where is Paul’s “Gospel” (the Gospel of the Grace of God) in all of the preceding verses? The verses clearly state that some NATIONS are going to “inherit the kingdom” (NOT “eternal life”) based on how they treated the Jews (Christ’s “brethren”) during the Tribulation; and some NATIONS are going to be cast into “everlasting fire” & “punishment” based on their mistreatment of the Jews (Christ’s “brethren”) during the Tribulation.

Can you see what a mess someone can get in - if they don’t “rightly divide the word of truth”? If John Calvin couldn’t get the rudimentary facts of Scripture straight here, what’s to say he had it right in his system of biblical interpretation and theological formulations– better known as the acronym: T.U.L.I.P.?
Paul's "Gospel" (the "Gospel of the Grace of God) is THE GOSPEL that is applicable to sinners in this age:

1 Corinthians 15:1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:


Acts 16:30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.


You must "rightly divide the word of truth" [2 Timothy 2:15] or else you will end up ADDING the "WORKS" of the Flesh to God's "FREE GIFT" of Salvation.

Romans 5:6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.
7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.
8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.
12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.
17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:
21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.


Our "WORKS" have absolutely NOTHING to do with our SALVATION? The Lord Jesus Christ did it ALL - ALL to Him I owe.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9
Not of works, lest any man should boast.
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Old 05-21-2009, 04:51 PM
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biblereader -

My dear Sis in Christ,

I see you posting things about the LAW and WORKS.

I've undergone some wonderful new understandings of this.

My faith is not under CALVINISM - which I know you vehemently disagree with and which I don't believe in - but my faith is not under the LAW either. As I've seen others here say - we don't have to believe in this or that "-ISM" and we don't have to be this or that "-IST." We just have to believe in the Word of God, as our reading and studying and the Holy Spirit reveals to us. We are all ONE MIND in Christ, are we not?

A lot of the people here at AV1611 (from what I have seen) are, like you, against Calvinism.

However, Calvinism is more than just GRACE. They have added an entire doctrine (TULIP) that is not biblical.

Regarding works - our faith is under grace... and not Law now. Because Jesus FULFILLED that Law.

That Law was still good and true and holy, yes! However, it was for the Jews, before Christ came.

Take note that some of the respondents were referring you to look at to WHOM a particular BOOK of the Bible was written to.

Portions of the Bible are history; portions are for our instruction, portions are for doctrine, portions are for reproof, portions are for correction... (2 Timothy 3:16). Each and every Scripture is not written for ALL reasons. We have to be very careful not to improperly apply history as doctrine, or correction as reproof. Reproof is like REBUKING. Correction is like showing what is done inaccurately.

The Jews were to have seen that Christ was that perfect sacrifice that all of their rituals and holy days pointed towards. He was the Lamb that was slaughtered, with His Blood on their doorpost (as on the cross). It's an analogy that just SCREAMS of the truth! Gentiles are not under that system of Law that the Jews were under. In fact, if you read Paul's writings, you will see him admonishing the Jews for trying to go back under the law again and teaching others to do the same.

If we are indeed saved, we will WANT to do good works. We don't do them to GET saved. Nor to get a reward - but because we are of Jesus and we will glorify Him, and show Him and His sacrifice to the world, until the day of our resurrection comes! That "witnessing" is a form of "works" also - if you want to get real technical about it.

We do nothing to glorify SELF - but all to the glory and honor of our LORD Jesus Christ.

Jassy
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Old 05-22-2009, 07:13 AM
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Yes,

Brother George is correct here. This verse is about Christ's judgement of the nations on the basis of how they treated the Jews. It is the ultimate/final fulfillment of God's promise to Abraham and his seed:

1 Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will show thee:

2 And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:

3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.

Genesis 12
King James Bible

"Come, ye blessed of my Father" and "Depart from me, ye cursed" being the tipoffs
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Old 05-23-2009, 11:08 PM
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chette777 chette777 is offline
 
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Here is one of the most neglected works after salvation amongst many Christians today Romans 12:1-2 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

If any man wants to do any work this is what God expects from you. simple to see even harder to do but with it comes great blessings
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Old 05-24-2009, 10:32 AM
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Originally Posted by chette777 View Post
Here is one of the most neglected works after salvation amongst many Christians today Romans 12:1-2 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

If any man wants to do any work this is what God expects from you. simple to see even harder to do but with it comes great blessings
Ouch!
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Old 05-24-2009, 05:33 PM
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I didn't mean to hurt anyone.

It just seems people want easy work like praying for the peace of Jerusalem, being nice to Jews, follow the ten commandments, tithe to a local church.

to the Pharisees Christ appealed to them not to neglect weightier matters like Mercy justice while they tithe the littlest bit of their substance.

Today Christian seems to be neglecting the more weightier matters of Romans 12, 13, 14.

I am just as guilty as any other I am not saying I am perfect or have attained it. but rather that our focus should be to that which God really wants that we present him our bodies as living sacrifices I have found the more I do this all that follows in Romans comes quite naturally.
 

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