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Old 08-26-2008, 01:40 AM
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chette777 chette777 is offline
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you do see they have to do something or lose their position or salvation in the text you posted earlier Hebrews 10:26-31 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, that is a loss of salvation in fiery indignation because it says the fiery indignation will devour the advisaries. the advisaries are the Devil, unbeleivers, enemies of the cross, and it will devour the willful sinner.

We as beleivers today do not expect to face a firey indignation if we sin wilfully now do we? If we do then Jesus didn't make enough atonement to cover all my sins and I have to work to keep my salvation. But Christ forgiveness was for all our sin and he justified us from all things. this does not give us license to sin however.

Are you going to tell us since you been saved you never sinned wilfully? Honestly I have. do I need to fear a fiery indignation? No because I reconized that it was wrong, I confessed it to the Lord, and I repented of it, sought forgiveness and reconciliation of those involved and made restitution.

If you want to know for sure if Paul wrote the Letter to the Hebrews. you will have to see Paul's own testimony on it 2 Thessalonians 3:17 The salutation of Paul with mine own hand, which is the token in every epistle: so I write. The letter to the Hebrews does not bear his own token salutation as he said his letter would have.

But if he did write it as the KJV Translaters suppossed he did, he left the token out for a reason.

Yes, it was written to Beleiving Jews not Gentiles, in this letter they are always told to do something or add something along side their faith. which is not the gospel of Grace alone in the finished work of Christ. the Jews in Tribulation are the only ones left to read it as the ones in the past are gone. Unless you think today a beleiving Jew has more required on them than we do for salvation.

Now I am very open here like I said to the spiritual or devotional apllication for Today. but the there is not Doctrinal application today.

I also admit that I can't lump all the content of the letters from Hebrews -Revelation into Tribulation for some of it is apllicable for Doctrine today in and where it agrees with Paul's teaching.

Last edited by chette777; 08-26-2008 at 01:51 AM.
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Old 08-26-2008, 02:33 AM
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chette777 chette777 is offline
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Just something I read from James Knox. I like this guys stuff but I don't always agree with him.

He thinks Jesus Christ Himself may have been the Author of the letter to the Hebrews.

Well just as good a theory as mine or yours.

and don't get me wrong just because I classify it as a hebrew book for the zjews in Tribulation. I by no means think that it releaves the christian of any duty to heed the words of admonishment found in Hebrews.

Last edited by chette777; 08-26-2008 at 02:39 AM.
Old 08-26-2008, 10:19 AM
Beltfed_0331 Beltfed_0331 is offline
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Default The power of the Holy Spirit.

Thank you so much group, reading these verses really does move me to make sure there is no sin in my life. Even the unknown sin can make God angry at me. Which is something I personally can live without? Here are some verses I found very detailed with the reference of sin in our life. How we view it, how we should view sin, and how God views the sin in our lives.
Ezekiel 8:12 Then said he unto me, Son of man, hast thou seen what the ancients of the house of Israel do in the dark, every man in the chambers of his imagery? for they say, The LORD seeth us not; the LORD hath forsaken the earth.
Proverbs 14:9 Fools make a mock at sin: but among the righteous there is favour.
Romans 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
Luke 8:14 And that which fell among thorns are they, which, when they have heard, go forth, and are choked with cares and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to perfection.
How we should view sin.
Luke 8:17 For nothing is secret, that shall not be made manifest; neither any thing hid, that shall not be known and come abroad.
Ephesians 5:12 For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret.
Psalms 25:11 For thy name's sake, O LORD, pardon mine iniquity; for it is great.
Isaiah 44:20 He feedeth on ashes: a deceived heart hath turned him aside, that he cannot deliver his soul, nor say, Is there not a lie in my right hand?
Jeremiah 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
Romans 7:13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
Psalms 90:8 Thou hast set our iniquities before thee, our secret sins in the light of thy countenance.
Gods and His view of sin in our lives.
Luke 12:47-48 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.
Romans 1:32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
Hebrews 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
2 Peter 2:21-22 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.
Job 20:12-16 Though wickedness be sweet in his mouth, though he hide it under his tongue; Though he spare it, and forsake it not; but keep it still within his mouth: Yet his meat in his bowels is turned, it is the gall of asps within him. He hath swallowed down riches, and he shall vomit them up again: God shall cast them out of his belly. He shall suck the poison of asps: the viper's tongue shall slay him. ...
2 Samuel 12:14 Howbeit, because by this deed thou hast given great occasion to the enemies of the LORD to blaspheme, the child also that is born unto thee shall surely die.
Ecclesiastes 5:6 Suffer not thy mouth to cause thy flesh to sin; neither say thou before the angel, that it was an error: wherefore should God be angry at thy voice, and destroy the work of thine hands?
1 Corinthians 5:6 Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump?
2 Samuel 24:17 And David spake unto the LORD when he saw the angel that smote the people, and said, Lo, I have sinned, and I have done wickedly: but these sheep, what have they done? let thine hand, I pray thee, be against me, and against my father's house.
Psalms 40:11-12 Withhold not thou thy tender mercies from me, O LORD: let thy lovingkindness and thy truth continually preserve me. For innumerable evils have compassed me about: mine iniquities have taken hold upon me, so that I am not able to look up; they are more than the hairs of mine head: therefore my heart faileth me.
Psalms 41:4 I said, LORD, be merciful unto me: heal my soul; for I have sinned against thee.
I have found so many great verses on this subject and it touches my heart while making me desire to grow closer to Him. We must remove the sin from our lives with faith in His forgiveness. Why do we deserve such grace? I know I don’t. Praise is to God for giving me the Holy Spirit to show me the sin in my life and allowing me to overcome and live in peace with Him today.
Old 08-26-2008, 10:39 AM
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stephanos stephanos is offline
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Yeah, I've also wondered if perhaps Paul left certain parts out of Hebrews in order to mask the fact that he indeed did write it. We know that the Jews were very zealous of the law in the church in Jerusalem (and of course we don't know if Hebrews was written to them specifically) and that they had heard that Paul was now in effect an antinomian, haha. Paul was still vey much so in love with his heritage as a Jew, and I think he wanted to be a part of the ministering to them. Paul also was terribly smart and likely knew that his views on things would be discredited by the people he wished to reach even before they had a chance to read what he said. This is just a guess on my part, but I think it is likely.

Much Love in Christ,
Old 08-26-2008, 09:01 PM
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chette777 chette777 is offline
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Yes the people would have rejected a letter form Paul and from Peter, John and any other Apostle.

Was Paul Antinomian? By secular view and somes theology maybe. But Paul beleived the Law was applicable for learning. Romans 15:4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.

Therefore I believe Paul was not a pure antinomian in the modern sense though he believed men were free from the requirement of Law for salvation. He still felt the law played an important role for life for spiritual development.
Old 08-27-2008, 05:17 PM
Beltfed_0331 Beltfed_0331 is offline
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Default Gods Words

I try not to let it bother me, but I must ask a question. Who wrote Romans or Hebrews? I stand on the belief these are the Words of God himself. Penned by man. Lets not put to much emphasis on the messenger. We have scripture only because God gave it to us. When the Pharisees thought highly of themselves for having been born directly of the lineage of Abraham, He reminded them that God could have brought forth His son from a rock if HE sought fit. God chose to use Paul to write His words down for us. I admire Paul and his mission to the Gentiles. I just find greater emphasis should be put on this being Gods words rather than having the idea mans circumstances changed the way scripture was written.
Old 08-27-2008, 06:33 PM
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chette777 chette777 is offline
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Mind you that Authorship is important. It was important to Cannon of Scripture and is important to study.

different Authors had at times different Gospels. Identifying them helps us to rightly divide the Word.

yes we all agree God gave us the word through men and the men are not the important factor because if we make teh messenger more improtant we end up in division )some or of Appolos, some of Paul some of Jesus).

but for study and understanding Gods method of using a man literary style is important.

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