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Old 07-22-2009, 11:23 PM
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Default I Corinthians 5

My husband is teaching through I & II Corinthians on Wednesday nights and I was struck by the seeming harshness in the passage...Why if we were to not fellowship with a brother for any reason the world and sadly the brethren would certainly call us hateful and condemning...

But amidst the harshness is - that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

It's not to be mean or to glory in a fallen brother, but it's for his own good.

Then I was a little frustrated that we are so apt to categorize sins...

Now fornication!? THAT's the big sin...Drunkard...that one too. But covetous?! Nope, never ever heard that a brother was "put away from" the brethren for being covetous...A railer? I've known quite a few in my lifetime...never once saw them turned away from fellowship.

Anyway, I certainly would feel unqualified to put away someone that was covetous!?

And does this only apply in the church? What about family? Having a couple of uncles that are fornicators and drunkards (at times) do I avoid eating with them at family get togethers and not keep company with them? They both claim salvation and 1 especially has a clear testimony of salvation but that is as far as it goes.

Just a few thoughts to start a discussion. Feel free to bring up anything from this chapter and discuss it.
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Old 07-22-2009, 11:33 PM
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Have you considered the historical aspect of what was going on in Corinth at the time and why Paul would be communicating as he did in 1 Corinthians?

There was a degree of pervasiveness of sin occurring in the church there that Paul needed to deal with. He had received communications about the situation and I think you need to consider the historical context. Your example of your wayward uncles might not be applicable unless you are implying (I did not detect this) that their behavior was a consistent pattern of fornication and drunkenness.

AMR
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Old 07-22-2009, 11:53 PM
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AMR,

OK...I will look at the historical aspect. Great point.

As to my uncles...yes unfortunately it is a lifestyle for them...most of the time.
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Old 07-23-2009, 05:45 AM
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a consistent pattern of covetous life may be something like the person who is addicted to buying barbie dolls, or Beatles or Elvis memorabilia they just got to have all they can get. Or they are the type who has got to have the latest of every new gadget that comes along. their homes are full of dolls, Sesame street characters, or even a person who just loves cats tot he point of them filling their house with them.

Well I think you get the picture.
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Old 07-23-2009, 07:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chette777 View Post
a consistent pattern of covetous life may be something like the person who is addicted to buying barbie dolls, or Beatles or Elvis memorabilia they just got to have all they can get. Or they are the type who has got to have the latest of every new gadget that comes along. their homes are full of dolls, Sesame street characters, or even a person who just loves cats tot he point of them filling their house with them.

Well I think you get the picture.
Or indeed the old expression "Keeping up with the Jones's"
People focused on what they "Want", rather than what they "Need"

Quote:
Proverbs 13:25 The righteous eateth to the satisfying of his soul: but the belly of the wicked shall want.
The simple fact is, that if you are covetous of worldly things, this in turn will draw you away from God and fellowship with him and indeed other Christians.
The truth is that only God can truly satisfy our needs, if we covet things of the world, satisfaction is only temporal, but with God we know that in him all our satisfaction rests.

Quote:
Psalms 23:1 A Psalm of David. The LORD is my shepherd; I shall not want.
Quote:
2 Corinthians 9:9 (As it is written, He hath dispersed abroad; he hath given to the poor: his righteousness remaineth for ever.
I may not have a lot of money , nor possesions, but I am certainly a rich man in the Lord as I have a gift no money can buy, eternal life through the Grace of our Lord Jesus Christ.

On the subject of the Post,
If a Brother or Sister is walking openly opposed to the Lord, (fornication, drunkenness as exampled) and glorying in the fact, or unrepentant in their sin, I believe that we should not fellowship with such a one that is so clearly indulging in sin and has no shame over it, however those who are struggling (and clearly so) with such sin, that genuinely feel remorse for their deeds, need Christian care and support to help them through, brotherly love must abound.
If the brethren in question don't care how their actions affect others and glory in their sin rather than glorying in the Lord, then I personally would choose to avoid that person (as and when it is possible) until they on the latter part be ashamed of their actions, but if that brother was so torn up by his actions and indeed the affect they had on OTHERS and needed help, well then of course by all means hold your hand out to that brother.

1 Corinthians 8:12 But when ye sin so against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience, ye sin against Christ.
1 Corinthians 8:13 Wherefore, if meat make my brother to offend, I will eat no flesh while the world standeth, lest I make my brother to offend.

Finally may I give an example, a Brother attends a Church regularly, spends most of the service's staring inappropriately at a young sister, another mans wife, making comments that certainly aren't befitting a Christian man, and repeating this service after service, that man needs approached and warned scripturally of his offences and asked to stop, he wont, he continues to make many sisters in the Lord feel uncomfortable, as well as his brothers, yet he still wont stop the coveting, should that Brother be asked / made to leave for the sake of "others"?
I feel YES it is in such an example Biblical in regards to the posts heading.
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Old 07-23-2009, 07:29 AM
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Amanda S. Amanda S. is offline
 
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The comments you all are making are great!

As to the uncles, we are very cautious as you all mentioned and really have very little to do with them at all just because that is the nature of my extended family. We're just not a close knit family. I appreciate the words of wisdom concerning that though...they are the type that have little respect and will drink or say pretty much what they please with little regard for a Christian. I could argue that they aren't really even saved...but I won't for sake of this particular discussion...

I really was trying to give an example...Is this only in a body of believers (church) setting or do we carry this out to every believer type of question.

Great examples on the covetous brethren too. I just have never personally seen (or heard of) a brother put away for this. I am thinking of one man in particular who I certainly would label as covetous, but just because his coveteousness is more visible, how are we to judge? I guess we can only go on the fruits that we see. He is certainly a good brother in other aspects.
I see what you are saying though as to just because you covet in your Christian life here and there (as we are all wont to do at times) doesn't make it a pattern...a lifestyle. We all sin, but if there is a pattern of a particular sin then that would be a cause for concern.

But again, I have never seen this carried out except perhaps w/ fornication...

Can you imagine the fall-out in a church for confronting (certainly putting away and having no fellowship with!) the greatly loved youth pastor who is doing a fantastic job with the youth and the youth group is growing for his coveteousness and lavish spending!? I think your average church attender would say it wasn't our business...


Quote:
On the subject of the Post,
If a Brother or Sister is walking openly opposed to the Lord, (fornication, drunkenness as exampled) and glorying in the fact, or unrepentant in their sin, I believe that we should not fellowship with such a one that is so clearly indulging in sin and has no shame over it, however those who are struggling (and clearly so) with such sin, that genuinely feel remorse for their deeds, need Christian care and support to help them through, brotherly love must abound.
If the brethren in question don't care how their actions affect others and glory in their sin rather than glorying in the Lord, then I personally would choose to avoid that person (as and when it is possible) until they on the latter part be ashamed of their actions, but if that brother was so torn up by his actions and indeed the affect they had on OTHERS and needed help, well then of course by all means hold your hand out to that brother.
Bro. Steve, I like the way you worded that. Certainly is a godly picture you presented.

And please, I would like to discuss any/all aspects of this chapter not just the examples I gave. If there is something you'd like to point out or comment on or something you've taught on I Cor. 5 I'd love to hear it.
  #7  
Old 07-23-2009, 06:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amanda S. View Post
My husband is teaching through I & II Corinthians on Wednesday nights and I was struck by the seeming harshness in the passage...Why if we were to not fellowship with a brother for any reason the world and sadly the brethren would certainly call us hateful and condemning...

But amidst the harshness is - that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

It's not to be mean or to glory in a fallen brother, but it's for his own good.

Then I was a little frustrated that we are so apt to categorize sins...

Now fornication!? THAT's the big sin...Drunkard...that one too. But covetous?! Nope, never ever heard that a brother was "put away from" the brethren for being covetous...A railer? I've known quite a few in my lifetime...never once saw them turned away from fellowship.

Anyway, I certainly would feel unqualified to put away someone that was covetous!?

And does this only apply in the church? What about family? Having a couple of uncles that are fornicators and drunkards (at times) do I avoid eating with them at family get togethers and not keep company with them? They both claim salvation and 1 especially has a clear testimony of salvation but that is as far as it goes.

Just a few thoughts to start a discussion. Feel free to bring up anything from this chapter and discuss it.
1 Corinthians 5
9. I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:

10. Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.

11. But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolator, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
Paul's instructions is for us to not keep company with a brother who is caught up in these sins because it would be impossible to to separate from everyone in the world who was caught up in these things unless there was some way you could leave the world. As far as a situation like you described concerning your uncles I think that is left up to the discretion of you and your husband. If it were just you and your husband there would probably be no problem with the family togethers, but what about your children? If there is any way they could come in harm's way or under a negatice influence you might want to avoid the family eatings. Most likely though, these uncles aren't drinking and fornicating at the family get-togethers or even speaking of it so you would want to take advantage of being a Christian witness.
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Old 07-25-2009, 01:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amanda S. View Post
Now fornication!? THAT's the big sin...Drunkard...that one too. But covetous?! Nope, never ever heard that a brother was "put away from" the brethren for being covetous...A railer? I've known quite a few in my lifetime...never once saw them turned away from fellowship.

Anyway, I certainly would feel unqualified to put away someone that was covetous!?
I realize that I am coming late to the party, but I have enjoyed reading the responses thus far. Please allow me to add just a few of my thoughts.

It is my opinion that Paul's list is not all-inclusive. He has not limited our actions to be bound to these few sins. I believe Paul is making reference to "habitual" sins. If a brother is bound to any sin and does not seem to respond to efforts to help him get victory over his sin, then he must be dealt with accordingly, as Paul states.

Regarding categorizing sins, it seems that there is a progression in the Word of God.

Ps 19:12 Who can understand his errors? cleanse thou me from secret faults.
13 Keep back thy servant also from presumptuous sins; let them not have dominion over me: then shall I be upright, and I shall be innocent from the great transgression.

If we can reach a brother before he slips into the deeper sins, we have a more likely chance to restore him to fellowship. It is clear that some sins carry a greater earthly consequence than other sins. It is also clear that God deals with certain sins differently as well. One has only to look at the awful consequences faced by Ananias and Sapphira for lying, compared to King David for committing what, humanly speaking, are much greater sins.
  #9  
Old 07-25-2009, 05:49 PM
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all to true brother Presswood.

Good to see you back
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Old 07-25-2009, 09:42 PM
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Wonderful, wonderful points Bro. Presswood! I will share them with the husband in the morning!
Thank you and you are NOT late to the party. It's just getting started!
 

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