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  #1  
Old 07-11-2009, 05:20 PM
Steve Schwenke
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Default Pastors/Shepherds???

I would like to discuss this idea.

THis was from Diligent in the I Cor. 3:16-17 thread:
Quote:
You are not in a church, you are in a forum. And nobody here usurps Christ's role as shepherd of his flock. You imply above that you are somehow in a position to be a shepherd here. Pretty strange.

Read 1Pe 5:1-4 in the King James Version. The flock is God's, and the elders are to feed it, not act as lords over it. Only modern versions tell elders to shepherd the flock.
I am not interested in responding to the attack made in the first paragraph, although Diligent misunderstood my point made via illustration.

Is it unscriptural to "shepherd" the flock of God?
What is a pastor?
Jer 23:1 Woe be unto the pastors that destroy and scatter the sheep of my pasture! saith the LORD.
Jer 23:2 Therefore thus saith the LORD God of Israel against the pastors that feed my people; Ye have scattered my flock, and driven them away, and have not visited them: behold, I will visit upon you the evil of your doings, saith the LORD.

It looks to me that a Pastor IS a shepherd by definition. consider Webster's 1828:
Pastor - noun
1. A shepherd; one that has the care of flocks and herds
2. A minister of the gospel who has the charge of the church and congregation, whose duty it is to watch over the people of his charge, and instruct them in the sacred doctrines of the Christian religion.


Eph 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

So we ARE pastors...

I Peter 5:1 ¶ The elders which are among you I exhort, who am also an elder, and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that shall be revealed:
2 Feed the flock of God which is among you, taking the oversight thereof, not by constraint, but willingly; not for filthy lucre, but of a ready mind;
3 Neither as being lords over God’s heritage, but being ensamples to the flock.
4 And when the chief Shepherd shall appear, ye shall receive a crown of glory that fadeth not away.
5 ¶ Likewise, ye younger, submit yourselves unto the elder. Yea, all of you be subject one to another, and be clothed with humility: for God resisteth the proud, and giveth grace to the humble.

It appears to me from this passage that the elders are to feed and lead the flock (sheep!) just as a shepherd would. The appeal is that we are to treat the flock as the Great Shepherd would; in other words, we are shepherds underneath the chief shepherd.
We are not cattle-drivers; we are shepherds.

I am curious to hear from others on this subject.
  #2  
Old 07-11-2009, 06:13 PM
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Brother Tim Brother Tim is offline
 
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I think of myself not as a shepherd, but as a senior sheep. I have learned to watch the Shepherd as He shows me where the better grass is and where the waters flow safe. I encourage the younger sheep to follow me as I follow the Shepherd, thus being an "ensample" to the flock. Remember the unique meaning of the word "ensample" versus "example".
  #3  
Old 07-11-2009, 08:34 PM
Winman Winman is offline
 
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Quote:
Is it unscriptural to "shepherd" the flock of God?
No, it is scriptural. However I do think this applies to a local body of believers.

My old pastor used to complain a little about these TV preachers. Folks would send off their money and write letters for help. He used to say, "Try calling one of these fellows when you are in the hospital and see if he shows up!"
  #4  
Old 07-11-2009, 10:05 PM
Steve Schwenke
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Winman View Post
No, it is scriptural. However I do think this applies to a local body of believers.

My old pastor used to complain a little about these TV preachers. Folks would send off their money and write letters for help. He used to say, "Try calling one of these fellows when you are in the hospital and see if he shows up!"
  #5  
Old 07-12-2009, 01:43 AM
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tonybones2112 tonybones2112 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Schwenke View Post
I would like to discuss this idea.

THis was from Diligent in the I Cor. 3:16-17 thread:


I am not interested in responding to the attack made in the first paragraph, although Diligent misunderstood my point made via illustration.

Is it unscriptural to "shepherd" the flock of God?
What is a pastor?
Jer 23:1 Woe be unto the pastors that destroy and scatter the sheep of my pasture! saith the LORD.
Jer 23:2 Therefore thus saith the LORD God of Israel against the pastors that feed my people; Ye have scattered my flock, and driven them away, and have not visited them: behold, I will visit upon you the evil of your doings, saith the LORD.

It looks to me that a Pastor IS a shepherd by definition. consider Webster's 1828:
Pastor - noun
1. A shepherd; one that has the care of flocks and herds
2. A minister of the gospel who has the charge of the church and congregation, whose duty it is to watch over the people of his charge, and instruct them in the sacred doctrines of the Christian religion.


Eph 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

So we ARE pastors...

I Peter 5:1 ¶ The elders which are among you I exhort, who am also an elder, and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that shall be revealed:
2 Feed the flock of God which is among you, taking the oversight thereof, not by constraint, but willingly; not for filthy lucre, but of a ready mind;
3 Neither as being lords over God’s heritage, but being ensamples to the flock.
4 And when the chief Shepherd shall appear, ye shall receive a crown of glory that fadeth not away.
5 ¶ Likewise, ye younger, submit yourselves unto the elder. Yea, all of you be subject one to another, and be clothed with humility: for God resisteth the proud, and giveth grace to the humble.

It appears to me from this passage that the elders are to feed and lead the flock (sheep!) just as a shepherd would. The appeal is that we are to treat the flock as the Great Shepherd would; in other words, we are shepherds underneath the chief shepherd.
We are not cattle-drivers; we are shepherds.

I am curious to hear from others on this subject.
Steve, I think the point Brandon tried to make that was seen as an "attack", which was not an "attack", is that this whole website is not a "church" in the traditional sense. It's an "ecclesia", a gathering, of believers in Jesus Christ, yes, it is a "church" in a way, but Brandon Stagg's is the "pastor" of this group. His daily bread, all or part, is earned by his authorship of the SWORDSEARCHER KJV Bible program, which this forum is one part of the website for. This website and it's moderation method is entirely within Scripture and within the laws of capitalism: We do not contribute financially to the upkeep of this site, we are all guests by Brandon's grace. This whole website is a private venture and not subject to a rule by a "deacon's board". I have no problems with Brandon's moderation of this forum, he has made a widely diverse group of people welcome to a forum, but when he has to rule with an iron hand he's on it like white on rice. There are some Christians on this forum who are new Christians or not fully grounded in God's word, and Brandon does not allow Lawkeepers, Unitarians, Universalists, cults, and most of all, those who criticize and "correct" the word of God, to impair or cast doubt in these young Christian's growth, and for that I think I am most grateful to him for in moderation. We have as forum members Matthew from Austrailia(Bibleprotector), Will Kenney, and George Andersen, three of the top sources for information on defense of the KJV.

My point is that this forum is not a Baptist church, it's private property. many on the forum are users of the SWORDSWEARCHER program. The free ONLINE BIBLE program has a neat, almost instantaneous word search feature, the free E-SWORD program has multiple corrupt version feature, but for pure KJV Bible study there is no finer computer program, free or commercial,, than SWORDSEARCHER. Another feature of this website is that it provides links and much study material for the defense of the KJV as inspired Scripture.

This forum does not need multiple moderation. Brandon has done, is now, and will continue to do a good job, so I see no need for multiple moderation. He has his standards of rule, many I agree with, and most of all he protects his members and stands up for them, particularly, as mentioned before, the new Christians and those not fully grounded yet.

Grace and peace brother

Tony
  #6  
Old 07-12-2009, 07:09 AM
Steve Schwenke
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Tony, I am not sure where you are coming from.
I was accused of "reading people's hearts..." etc in the I Cor. 3 thread.
I responded that as a Pastor (which I am) I am in a position where I must make judgment on a continual basis. I never said that I was a pastor or the pastor on this forum. I have no idea where you and Brandon got that thought. I was making an illustration.

I find it interesting that Brandon can (falsely) accuse me of trying to "pastor" on this forum, while he gets to be the "pastor." hmmm - not sure I follow that!
If you had read my original post in response to Brandon on the I Cor. 3 thread, I have already addressed this! I was making an illustration. I guess there are too many people on this forum that have "kneejerk" reactions, without any regard to anyone but their "buddies."
I am here for the edification.

Now,
How does your response answer my OP?
My OP is about the leadership in a local church.
Brandon says that it is only the new versions that say that a pastor "shepherds" a church. I disagree. The word "pastor" means "shepherd" so by definition we are shepherds, and as such must "shepherd" the church.
  #7  
Old 07-13-2009, 10:49 PM
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Biblestudent Biblestudent is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tonybones2112 View Post
We do not contribute financially to the upkeep of this site, we are all guests by Brandon's grace. This whole website is a private venture and not subject to a rule by a "deacon's board". I have no problems with Brandon's moderation of this forum, he has made a widely diverse group of people welcome to a forum, but when he has to rule with an iron hand he's on it like white on rice.
This makes me better understand the feelings of our diligent moderator. Thanks!
  #8  
Old 07-16-2009, 12:57 AM
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tonybones2112 tonybones2112 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Biblestudent View Post
This makes me better understand the feelings of our diligent moderator. Thanks!
You're welcome my friend. I suppose I'll be known as a "Staggsite" now. No problem.

First, we all know Brandon can take care of himself, but I'm going to speak for a friend and brother when I feel led to, and this time was one I was led to.

I found the author of this thread to be very subtle and then flat deny his insinuations when confronted with clear dissertation. The entire gist of the message was that Brandon was not moderating the forum in that there seemed to be doctrines taught here the author of the thread didn't care for. So we need a "board" of moderators. Right.

This is the forum for the SWORDSEARCHER Bible program's website, a commercial product, and not subject to any democratic perambulations. This is a private website. At the same time the moderator has governed it in a fair and Scriptural manner. Those who "correct" the Scriptures or teach false doctrine are disciplined with the methods of the moderator's discretion. That goes for me as much as it did for Tandi and Nehemiah. Otherwise, we are free to spread our wings so to speak, teach, be taught, and comment. I love it here. I just need a computer that works dependably.

Grace and peace my friend

Tony
  #9  
Old 07-16-2009, 08:34 AM
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Diligent Diligent is offline
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Just a point for clarification:

This forum isn't really a SwordSearcher forum. I do link to the SwordSearcher web site because it is likely to be useful to a lot of people who would be interested in this forum, and it also pays the bills. I don't want someone to get the idea that they have to support SwordSearcher in order to use/support this forum.

SwordSearcher also has a pretty wide range of users -- I expect only a small subset of those users would feel "at home" in this forum. SwordSearcher actually has its own forum which is tame and quiet compared to this one. (And I like it that way.)

That being said, I certain do appreciate the folks who talk about SwordSearcher and support it.
  #10  
Old 07-16-2009, 02:46 PM
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and anyone who has not tried SwordSearcher has missed the best Bible study tool available today for a faithful, serious Bible student.

[this is the testimony of a regular user of the software and not that of a paid actor ]
 

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