[George]

Aloha all,

Re: Peter S. Ruckman – Crackpot or Crusader?

From my last post on Peter Ruckman:


“I have noticed that there is one thing that this King James Bible Forum has in common with some others that I have seen - and that is a tendency on the part of some members (Bible believers to be sure) to dissociate or distance themselves from, or even criticize and tear down brother Peter Ruckman.

I also have noticed that many, if not most, of the negative comments that I read were based on "hearsay". So - before I make my comments I have 3 (three) questions to ask of any and all of those who have commented.

#1. Have you ever read any of the many books, commentaries, booklets, pamphlets, etc. that brother Ruckman has written? (And if so - how many? You don't have to list the names just the number -I'll trust you to be honest and truthful).

#2. Have you ever heard any of Peter Ruckman's numerous preaching and teaching tapes? (If so - how many? You don't have to list the names just the number -I'll trust you to be honest and truthful).

#3. Have you ever actually met brother Ruckman or been at any of his meetings where he has either preached or taught the word of God? (If so - where and when? I'll trust you to be honest and truthful).”

Matthew 7:1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.

2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

John 7:24 Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.


As promised earlier, I will answer the three questions that I posed to Forum.

#1. I read almost all of brother Ruckman’s Commentaries & Books, and most of his Booklets, Pamphlets, and numerous articles from 1968 up until 1988. From 1988 up to 2004 I hardly read anything of his until a good Christian friend moved from California to Kauai with many of brother Ruckman’s later books. I have borrowed about six of his books since then. (Including brother Ruckman's auto-biography)

#2. From 1969 Until 1975 I accumulated almost all of his Bible Class (School) material (approximately 2000 hours on Reel to Reel tape) and listened to most of the lessons. At the same time I also acquired approximately 100 preaching (cassette) tapes by him.

#3. In 1973 I moved (temporarily) from Kauai to Oahu to build a building for Koolau Baptist Church. During the summer of 1973 brother Ruckman came to Oahu for a week of meetings. Every day he taught Bible and Bible history for at least 3 hours in the morning and held preaching services every night. He spent more time with my family than he did with anyone else. We ate lunch together (he loves Chinese food) and several times after the preaching service we would play tennis (12;00 a.m. at night). I never “pumped” him; or “badgered” him; or “doted” on him; or called him” Doctor” or “Pastor”; most of the time we talked about Hawaii, the people, the food, the fishing, etc. He probably spent more time with our children, especially our oldest daughter (Naomi – 8 years old at the time), than he did with me.

You could have labeled me a “Ruckmanite” from about 1969 through 1975 and not been that far from the truth, although I have never blindly followed any man (not even when I was lost).

I have given this personal testimony because I believe that, given the above information, I am as qualified to judge or comment about brother Ruckman and his teachings and his doctrine, at least as well as anyone in this Forum.

In addition to the above information I have three close Christian friends that have visited brother Ruckman in Pensacola, Florida and attended his school for awhile and know some details of his personal life.

First, his marriages: In 1972 brother Bob Lescelious (Baptist pastor) came to the Anahola Baptist church on Kauai and taught for a week. Later on in the year brother R. E. (Dusty) Rhoades (Evangelist) and preached for a week. Both of these men personally knew brother Ruckman. And after inquiry, and in private, before several men of the church, both men testified (at separate times) that they believed that brother Ruckman’s 1st. wife was Demon Possessed! (Remember he married her BEFORE he was saved). And they both testified that she abandoned him and forced an acrimonious divorce on him.

In regards to his 2nd. wife, I rely on the testimony of my three friends that visited brother Ruckman at Pensacola and attended his school (one friend in particular kept in touch with some of the men involved the ministry there for over 17 years.). After about 10 years - Brother Ruckman married the sister of his assistant pastor and his father-in-law ran his Bookstore. After about 14 years his wife ran away with a cop from the congregation and abandoned him. In addition to that tragedy, the assistant pastor (his brother-in-law) ran away with about 1/3 of the congregation and there is some question about his father-in-law possibly misusing funds from the Bookstore (since brother Ruckman cares little about financial matters).

The question of whether brother Ruckman should serve as a pastor I leave up to the Lord. I just thank God (having been married to the same woman for 47 years) that I never have had to go through such an experience as he has. The fact is that the divorce rate among “Christians” in America is nearly as high as unbelievers, since most American Christians are so shot through with Humanism & Psychiatry & Psychology that they can’t discern between good and evil and have so little understanding and wisdom that they no longer are willing to obey God’s commandment concerning marriage (Matthew 19:6 & Mark 10:9).
{ Romans 14:4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.}

Next, brother Ruckman’s “attitude” and “harsh” language in his writings. First off: Everyone I know who have known him and been around him say that he is not like his writings (2Corinthians 10:10). Second: I can testify that in all of the books and tapes that I have read and heard almost all of brother Ruckman’s invective and harsh criticism is reserved for one class of people – Bible Critics & Correctors (Lost or Saved). And admittedly that criticism is at times extremely tough. In our PC Humanistic culture this kind of an attitude is frowned upon and generally put down as “unloving” or “divisive”.

Of course one has to remember that brother Ruckman lived a “full life” before he got saved at 27 years of age. He says that he has read on average “a book a day” for most of his life. He has been a drummer in a dance band; a disc jockey on the radio; and most importantly – during World War II he was an Infantry Combat Instructor. In other words, as a Lieutenant in the U.S. Army he taught young Americans going off to war in the Pacific Theater how to KILL the enemy! You might ask – why is this so important? The answer is quite simple: As a soldier, who taught other soldiers, brother Ruckman knew the value of a time warn truth in war – “often times the best DEFENSE is an OFFENSE!” (The United States has not won a war since World War II because our politicians and many leaders in the Armed Forces no longer believe in this maxim.)

Why is this so important? Because from 1881 (RV) until the early 1960’s many men have “stood in the gap” {Ezekiel 22:30 And I sought for a man among them, that should make up the hedge, and stand in the gap before me for the land, that I should not destroy it: but I found none.} and were not very successful in stemming the tide of unbelieving “scholarship”; among them:

IN THE PAST:
John W. Burgon, Edward Miller, F. H. Scrivener, Herman Hoskier, Bishop Wordsworth, Canon Cook, Sir Robert Anderson, Philip Mauro, Joseph C. Philpot, George Sayles Bishop, Benjamin C. Wilkinson, Robert Dick Wilson and Edward F. Hills, etc.

PRESENT DAY:
J. J Ray, Terence H. Brown, Henry Coray, Zane C. Hodges, Alfred Martin, David Otis Fuller, David Fountain, Gordon P. Gardiner, Wilbur N. Pickering, Donald T. Clarke, Bruce Cummins, Dick Cimino, Barry Burton, Perry F. Rockwood, , Billy Bartlett, Larry Bartlett, Herbert Noe, William P. Grady, and Michael Maynard, etc.

Most of these men were academicians – NOT SOLDIERS! God needed a Soldier to fight this battle and take it to the enemy. (Another German like Martin Luther, who was not known for being “sweet” and “loving”, but who broke the back of the Roman Catholic Church’ s strangle hold on all of Europe).

Practically all of the men listed above tried to stem the tide and were largely unsuccessful because they were unwilling to expose the pride and the prejudice of the Bible critics. They were unwilling to “take it to the enemies of God” (just like our modern day politicians are unwilling to take it to the enemy.)

Brother Ruckman has exposed the Bible critics for what they are – hypocrites, sophists, and prideful scribes that have no fear of God, and who will not hesitate to “correct” His Holy Scriptures whenever and wherever they please. (And he has made no allowances or excuses for “Christian” Bible critics, just because they are saved). And for “standing in the gap” he has paid a tremendous price – the criticism, shunning, and rejection of many so-called KJVO believers who have no idea as to what God has wrought through this man and his ministry.

And now to brother Ruckman’s Doctrine and “peculiar teachings”: After all of the preaching and teaching that I have either heard or read of brother Ruckman’s, I can truthfully testify, namely that he is circumspect about distinguishing between what he says is Clear Bible Doctrine and any speculation on his part. He does not “mix” his speculation with Bible Doctrine. He is extremely careful to point out which is which.

However, it would be real easy to lift “quotes” from his books, etc. (out of context) and “prove” that he is a “kook”, IF someone were dishonest enough not to distinguish between what he teaches as true Bible Doctrine and those things he “thinks” may be true. (See Stewart Custer's booklet - BJU)

The following is my personal testimony in regards to Peter Ruckman and his ministry: I was saved in 1958 (age 18) from reading a King James Bible (for the first time). From 1958 up to 1968 I attended various churches (searching for the truth) – Plymouth brethren; Independent Bible; Congregational; Assembly of God; Southern Baptist; and Independent Baptist. I was handed a “Philip’s Bible & an Amplified (by the brethren) – both of which I never took to. In all of the rest of the churches not one pastor, assistant pastor, Sunday school teacher, etc., (church leaders all) ever taught me about the Bible issue or how to study the Bible.

That is, in ten years, outside of some preaching and a little “Denominational” teaching, the only person who taught me anything about the Bible was a little old Japanese man (brother Fukushima - an ordinary Christian) who was dying of stomach cancer and who introduced me to Dispenstional Teaching and Charts in his home in Kapaa, Kauai for a few months before he died. And then:

In 1968 I started reading Peter Ruckman’s books. He was the first man to introduce the issue of which Bible to me. I didn’t just accept his word – I checked him out and after hundreds of hours of study and research I and found out that he was telling the truth. The issue of FINAL AUTHORITY became clear in my heart and my mind and I have never wavered from believing in the King James Bible being the final authority for God’s people in this age of apostasy.

Also, after having read “The Kingdom of God vs. The Kingdom of Heaven” (Now called “The Sure Word of Prophecy”) and a couple of his Commentaries (Primarily – Matthew) I learned how to “rightly divide the word of truth”.

The scorecard up to this time: Various churches and pastors, etc. = 0. Brother Fukushima & brother Ruckman = 3.

Since 1968 my wife and I have been ostracized from several churches (always by the church leaders/”pastors” – never by a congregation) and it has taken me a long time (too long) to accept God’s will and realize that in this age of apostasy - false teachers and teachers having itching ears are going to wax bolder and bolder and that it is my duty to stand in the gap, and testify to my Saviour, and to God’s goodness, and to His Holy word, and to His coming again - come what may.

To those who criticize and castigate brother Ruckman – a word of warning: WHAT IF? What if God has called brother Ruckman to the ministry to break the backs of the Bible critics? God uses sinful men, flawed and imperfect, to do His will. He even used Pagan Kings to fulfil His will (Darius) and called some of them His “Servant” (Nebuchadnezzar & Cyrus).

On my web page I have nearly 90 Bible lessons (70+ are mine). I only have two lessons where I reprove and rebuke a so-called Bible believer by name (The so-called “Doctrine of Submission”) and Dr. Stewart Custer (The Truth about The King James controversy"). I have not been called by God to “correct” the body of Christ. My ministry has been one of Reconciliation (if possible – 2Corinthians 5:18); and Edification (Romans 15:2). I thank God that I wasn’t called to brother Ruckman’s ministry. I would have needed skin as thick as a rhinoceros to bear up under his load.

We have got to get to the point where we Christians recognize each other’s callings and talents – and unless there is clear sin involved, we got to stop criticizing each other and each other’s ministries and devouring one another.

{ Romans 14:4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.}

Let me state for the record: I am not a Ruckmanite, I follow no man; I regard no man above another, (after all we are all brethren), and have stopped using “Titles” or calling men “pastor” or anything else used to elevate men. I follow the Lord Jesus Christ; I am a Bible believing Christian trying to follow my Lord according to His Holy Scriptures.

Psalms 33:4 For the word of the LORD is right; and all his works are done in truth.

Joshua 24:15 And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.

I would be happy to answer any of your questions if I can.

Yours for the Lord Jesus Christ and for His word,

George Anderson
. . . . yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, . . . . Romans 3:4

[atlas]

George,

God bless you my friend. Thank you for telling your story. I was blessed by reading it.




Atlas

Scripturally, we have every right and responsibility to test Ruckman and his writings by the Word of God. The holy men of God that He used in the Bible didn't go around calling people ungodly names and slandering them - when they called someone something it was because they WERE being fools, or hypocrites, etc. - whereas Ruckman resorts to name calling. Plus, he also slanders those who do not stand where he stands - though who may be just as strong (or moreso) in defending the Bible.

What IF God is using Ruckman? I choose to separate from his ungodliness, as the Bible commands me to. You can do whatever you want with him.

2 Thessalonians 3:6 Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us.

2 Thessalonians 3:14 And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed.

In light of what I know about Ruckman, I choose to have no company (fellowship) with him - and that includes his writings. He has discredited himself in my sight - and I have no desire to read someone who wings it in their theology, even if they state it is their opinion - an opinion that doesn't line up with the Word of God is worthless and unsafe.

[Jeff]

I know we may be confusing things by interspersing discussions about the gap theory with discussions about the character of Dr. Ruckman.

Anyway void means "void". It doesn't say "made void" or similar as many of the other verses mentioned. For what it's worth, the Hebrew word translated "void" in Gen 1:2 is only found three times in the Scriptures.

I agree that speculation can be interesting, but I want to make sure that I can keep straight what the Word says and what weird things my corrupt mind can come up with (it might scare you if you knew )

[George]

It seems that there are a couple of brothers here that have an extreme personal dislike for brother Ruckman. This animosity towards a fellow Christian, a brother in Christ, must be based on something.

I wonder whether he has insulted them or their wives or their children personally or has he perhaps insulted someone that they admire?

I will have more to say on this matter later.

[chette777]

I own about five books of Ruckman's, I have read other material of his. My opinion is he is saved but not always yielded to God (his tongue (members)) that is according to Roms. 6:12,13.

but as I give others I give him GRACE. you know all our sins are taken care of, it does not give any right to sin. I do believe that Cynisism is sin. and I have seen it alot on peopels posts. Criticism ok but Cynisism is not it is sin. cynisism puts people down and degrades them to the building up of the one doing it. Self centered in sin.

Maybe you raised you hand to receive Christ, or you prayed to ask him in your heart. that is not the Gospel. you need to analyze your selves to see if you are really in the FAITH. for by GRACE are ye saved through FAITH. not raising your hand or coming forward, not praying a prayer not repenting first, not changing your life style but pure unadulterated FAITH, Belief alone on the work of God the Son on His Cross. Some of you just sound as lost as Howard Stern in your cynisism. you may have all the Bible Knowledge and All the relegious activities but you may still be lost.

Ruckman's loves the saints, though his dispute with them is legit over the Holy BIBLE the KJV. he himself is not always led in, filled with, guided by, or living in the Holy Ghost. but the same can be said of all of us. what is missing from our Christianity? It is Gods work, let him work and you keep your pond muddying hands off his work. just yield and recognize you can't complete his work in your life. it is all by FAITH everyday not just once after you prayed a prayer, or Asked Jesus into your heart.

Everybody is so critical of Ruckman, and others they don't take time to look at themselve on daily bases. Christians will be judged. but they cannot be condemned for there is no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. we have an advocate our propitiation. no sin will ever send anyone to hell because it was all taken care of on the cross. after that the scriptures says he condemns them all in unbelief so he may have mercy on all.

only Belief (not raising hands or praying prayers) can save you. he who believes is saved already but he who believes not is condemned already.

lets learn to be grace filled and Spirit led men of God. and not some kind of Christian Howard Stern.

[Stvvv1611]

Originally Posted by jerry

There are various OT passages that refer to the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ. Genesis 3:15; Psalm 22; 16; Isaiah 53.

I never debated how much the OT saint understood or didn't understand some of these things - you don't have to understand something fully to accept it by faith. The OT taught the Gospel - looked forward to Christ fulfilling it, and the OT saints were saved by looking towards that Messiah who would die in their place.

Jerry…I’ll never forget the response of my roommates to a question I asked them in the mid-70’s while attending Tennessee Temple University. We were passing in front of the library headed back to our dorm returning from attending a church service. I inquired to how did an OT saint get ‘saved’? Their response was that theologians were still debating that issue! I was majoring in theology in the college division…they were in seminary.

Why am I not surprised that you did not come up with a single case demonstrating an OT saint getting ‘saved’ via Rom 10:9-10, and I see you’re still insisting that OT saints looked to the cross for salvation. I thought you would have at least gave demonstration of what ‘by faith’ salvation looked like in the OT, but you didn’t (or couldn’t) even do that!

Jerry…your treatment of Romans 4, in previous post #15 that triggered my response, is identical to that of the NIV.

AV1611.com is an excellent website showing abundance evidence from various perspectives and sources why we should accept the KJV as the Word of God; now I’m going to prove doctrine that you can’t get from other translations and from those who claim to believe it, but keep running to the Greek to make it say what they want to, or from those who fail to rightly divide it.

The book of Romans is a book of distinctions contrasting what was doctrinally true before the mystery of Godliness and after; 1 Timothy 3:16 (KJV) And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

The following are contrasts that Paul makes in his letter to the Romans, all being made for a case Paul is proving in chapter 4 in citing Abraham and David, all in which I am laying the ground work for in future posts:

The gospel of God according to prophecy – Rom 1:1-2
The gospel of Paul according to mystery – Rom 16:25

Faith of God – Rom 3:3
Faith of Christ – Rom 3:22

The righteousness of God with the law – Rom 2:13; 3:21; 10:5
The righteousness of God by faith of Jesus Christ – Rom 3:22; 10:4

Law of works – Rom 2:13; 3:27
Law of faith – Rom 3:27

God of the Jews – Rom 3:29
God of the Gentiles also – Rom 3:29

Justification by faith – Rom 3:30
Justification through faith – Rom 3:30

A remnant of Israel then – Rom 11:1-4
An election of Israel now of grace w/out works – Rom 11:5-6

As Paul seeks to make these distinctions as seen here in the KJV the NIV being the perversion that it is seeks to destroy a most important doctrinal distinction in justification between Jew and Gentile.

Romans 3:30 (KJV) 30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
Romans 3:30 (NIV) 30 since there is only one God, who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through that same faith.

Jerry…this is outright heresy! In the context of these chapters, I’ll prove the distinction between ‘by faith’ and ‘through faith’ and that ‘through faith’ is not the same faith as ‘by faith’ so indicated in the NIV. In fact, there are those who preach a ‘by faith’ salvation today which is a false gospel and of course I believe there are those today who preach a ‘through faith’ gospel, but call it by the wrong name. I would tend to give you the benefit of doubt and put you into the later category. In a future post, continuing on this same subject, I’ll again compare more passages in the NIV to the KJV relating directly to this topic.

The remainder of this post is dedicated to the investigation of the justifying of the circumcision ‘by faith’ in establishing what exactly justification ‘by faith’ looked like in the OT. We will be considering the ‘faith of God’, the means of God’s righteousness prior to the incarnation and man’s responsibility to each.

Under the OT the Jew was obligated to God because unto them were committed the oracles of God (Rom 3:1-3). Israel committed to this covenant relationship via Moses and here were the terms:

Exodus 19:5-8 (KJV) 5 Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine: 6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel. 7 And Moses came and called for the elders of the people, and laid before their faces all these words which the LORD commanded him. 8 And all the people answered together, and said, All that the LORD hath spoken we will do. And Moses returned the words of the people unto the LORD.

There were two sides to the equation of this covenant…Israel’s obedience and God’s faithfulness. It is to this equation that Paul speaks to:

Romans 3:1-3 (KJV) What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision? 2Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God. 3For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?

This faith (faithfulness) of God that an OT saint was to rely on is so clearly demonstrated in the life of Sara.

Hebrews 11:11 (KJV) Through faith also Sara herself received strength to conceive seed, and was delivered of a child when she was past age, because she judged him faithful who had promised.

Jerry…though we’re dealing with the faith of God in relation to the nation of Israel in Romans, the ‘by faith’ principal existed from day one of creation. God created man, placed him in the garden with instruction and then expected simple obedience. Well, we all know the end of that story…1 Samuel 15:23 (KJV) For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because thou hast rejected the word of the LORD, he hath also rejected thee from being king. Okay, different story, but same disobedience got them thrown out of the garden and we’re paying the price today!

Simply put, from the creation of man and continuing through God’s dealings with the patriarchs and nation of Israel, God expected to be believed and obeyed. The Jewish Christian book of Hebrews picks up on this marvelous theme of ‘by faith’ in reflection back on the fathers and OT faithful:

Hebrews 11
4 By faith Abel offered
5 By faith Enoch pleased
7 By faith Noah prepared
8 By faith Abraham obeyed
9 By faith he sojourned
17 By faith Abraham offered
20 By faith Isaac blessed
21 By faith Jacob blessed
22 By faith Joseph made mention
23 By faith Moses was hid
24 By faith Moses refused
27 By faith he forsook
29 By faith they passed
30 By faith the walls were compassed
31 By faith the harlot Rahab had received

(In a future post I’ll also demonstrate the marvels of the KJV translators in how deliberate they were in translating and inserting ‘by’ & ‘through’ in this chapter. Compare verse 11 with the above and see if you can tell a distinction? Then for the fun of it, check out ‘by’ & ‘through’ in same chapter in a NIV.)

First mentions in the Bible usually set precedence and the record of Cain and Abel is an exact demonstration of righteousness ‘by faith’.

Heb 11:4 By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.

1 John 3:12 Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous.

The issue at hand isn’t a belief in the existence of God for even Cain conversed with God (Gen 4:9-16), as did his father Adam. The issue is what is justification ‘by faith’? There are three essential components that make up righteousness ‘by faith’ as seen here in these two passages regarding Cain and Abel:

1. The first of three components found in ‘by faith’ is that of believing what God has said or established. Without the shedding of blood is no remission of sins (Heb 9:22) is a principle God laid down from the very fall of man seen in the preparation of coats for Adam and Eve, by God himself. When Abel responded ‘by faith’ it first meant he believed God concerning this blood principal.

2. The second component of ‘by faith’ is obeying and Abel carried through with what he believed by offering a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, a blood offering (Gen 4:3-5; Job 1:5).

3. The third component of ‘by faith’ is seen in the ‘faith of God’, or God’s trustworthiness to hold up His side of the deal and counted Abel righteous, God testifying of his gifts.

Now Jerry, I can sense you throwing a real fit on this point, but the fact is the means in which man obtained the righteousness of God’s was in what God commanded and expected to be carried out in obedience. Abel obtained witness that he was righteous in offering unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain...God testifying of Abel’s gifts! Cain’s own works were evil and his brother's works righteous. Jerry…you cannot separate the three components of ‘by faith’ listed above in this scenario or else ‘by faith’ ceases to be ‘by faith’! No Jerry…we’re not debating which came first, the chicken or the egg. Simply put, these elements cannot be separated! I’ll demonstrate latter in another post what happens when they get separated. Solomon sums it up nicely from a ‘by faith’ OT viewpoint:

Ecc 12:13-14 (KJV) Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. 14For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

Consider Noah… Genesis 7:1 (KJV) And the LORD said unto Noah, Come thou and all thy house into the ark; for thee have I seen righteous before me in this generation.

Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord. Why Jerry? Because Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and walked with God (Gen 6:8-9). Jerry…this is exactly opposite of Eph 2:8-9 (KJV); For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9Not of works, lest any man should boast. Let me tell you something about yours and mine salvation; neither of us Jerry found grace in God’s eyes before we ‘got saved’ because we were just men and perfect in our generation and walked with God!

Rahab is an example of ‘by faith’ extending beyond Israel to a Gentile. Rahab simply believed the spies, obeyed their command, trusted and was rewarded when she and her family was rescued before the walls of Jericho came down. Rahad ended up a resident in Israel (Jos 6:25). Her attitude towards Israel’s God and treatment of the spies is recorded in Jos 2. … 11 for the LORD your God, he is God in heaven above, and in earth beneath. 12 Now therefore, I pray you, swear unto me by the LORD, since I have shewed you kindness, that ye will also shew kindness unto my father's house…

Jerry…exactly what aspect of the mystery of Godliness (1Tim 3:16) do you suppose Rahab figured out in recognizing the LORD…Israel’s God or from what the spies may have shared with her? Think the spies took her down the Roman’s road before being let down from the window? Speaking of Gentiles…how much of Jonah’s preaching the word of the LORD to Nineveh included the mystery of Godliness that caused Nineveh to repent (Jonah 3:1-10)? Jonah 3:10 And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.

Before dealing with Abraham and David, in the context of Roman’s 4, I need one more post to prove just the opposite of your claim that OT saints weren’t ‘saved’ by the works of the law:

“Abraham, David, and all OT believers were saved by faith, by grace - not by the works of the Law.” Post #15

Stvvv1611
2Timothy 2:15

[Biblestudent]

Thanks Stvvv1611! We need to see "the mystery". Otherwise, we are "searching what or what manner..."

Ephesians 3:1 For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,
2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:
3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:
7 Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.
8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;
9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:
10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,

The KEY that opened my understanding is when I recognized three things:
(1) Paul is a UNIQUE apostle - the apostle of the Gentiles, separate from the 12
(2) With a UNIQUE gospel - the gospel of the grace of God
(3) And a UNIQUE ministry - for the first time, to GENTILES (since salvation had always been of the Jews, not until NOW)
(4) To a UNIQUE group of people - ONE BODY

[Biblestudent]

Are we reading Scripture into these passages, or is there a gap in them?

Is there a gap theory here?
Daniel 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

Is there a gap theory here?
John 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Is there a gap theory here?
Isaiah 61:2 To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn;

Is there a gap theory here?
Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Great - maybe a bit more studying in the Word of God will show you where you are wrong. All the best.