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View Poll Results: Is water baptism Biblically correct for believers today?
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Old 05-19-2009, 07:10 PM
johnlf's Avatar
johnlf johnlf is offline
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus, OH
Posts: 27
Default Interesting thread

Interesting thread.

First off, let me introduce myself. I am the husband of Greenbear and have been a Christian for 23 years. This is my first post, so I am not sure when or if it will be posted. I have been KJV only ever since I read Gail Riplinger's "New Age Bible Versions" and found the arguments(not her wit) extremely compelling. I have also followed Brother Brandon's works over the years and commend him.

I have never been a member of any denomination, not out of any peculiar aversion, but rather a strong distrust of any and all traditions of men. I have been of a similar conviction as Brother Tonybones for about as long as I have been KJV only. I simply encountered the arguments from the Scripure and could not refute them using Scripture. The particular book that opened my eyes was Brother Noah Hutching's "Why so Many Churches?".

Ever since I became a Christian I have encountered various sects. Some of which I agree with very little on and others with which I agree with much. But I remain perplexed to this day as to why so many Christians feel the need to divide up into little groups according to their traditions.

I will say that I have found two groups to be the "most" correct in what they espouse. The first being the Plymouth Bretheren, who seem to be quite dispensationally astute, but weak on the critical issue of Bible versions. The second being the Fundamental Baptists, who are rock solid on Bible versions, but often seem to border on legalism when it comes to their traditions.

After reading the tone of a number of posts in this thread, the verse comes to mind:

20 Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men.

1 Corinthians 14
King James Bible

That said, I'd like to address some issues. Let me give an example. If I go out to the mailbox and find a letter from the government stating that I am in violation of some law, you can be assured that I will be quick to act. But what if it turns out that by accident the postman put a letter addressed to my neighbor in my mailbox. Well, that's a whole different story. I would breathe a sigh of relief and take the letter to its intended recipient.

"16 Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain where Jesus had appointed them. 17 And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted. 18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. 19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen."

Matthew 28
King James Bible

Now I humbly submit to you that this is not my "mail". I do not teach nations. And most certainly do not teach them to observe things.

"23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness; 24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God"

1 Corinthians 1
King James Bible

What Christ was commanding his Jewish disciples to do was to fulfill the mission of their Kingdom. To be a light unto the Gentiles. But they failed that mission. But did they fail that mission because they crucified Christ? Of course not, because this commission was given AFTER Christ had already risen!

Just as Christ commanded them later in Acts:

"6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel? 7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power. 8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth."

Acts 1
King James Bible

Later they were empowered by the Holy Spirit to carry out that very mission:

"14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words: 15 For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day. 16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;

17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:"

Again, we are seeing the Jews now being empowered by the Holy Spirit in the fulfillment of Old Testament prophecy. The beginning of the conversion of the nation of Israel had begun. But they never were able to continue by fulfilling the rest of the commission. Why? Because they were unable to convert the nation and receive back their King:

"17 And now, brethren, I wot that through ignorance ye did it, as did also your rulers. 18 But those things, which God before had shewed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled. 19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord. 20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: 21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began. 22 For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you. 23 And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people."

Acts 3
King James Bible

Here is a call for national repentance. And what was the response to the call? A number of 5000 believers but rejection by the authorities:

"1 And as they spake unto the people, the priests, and the captain of the temple, and the Sadducees, came upon them, 2 Being grieved that they taught the people, and preached through Jesus the resurrection from the dead."

Acts 4
King James Bible

Finally, God gave the nation one more chance to believe and begin to fulfill its mission to make known to the world the coming Kingdom of God and its resurrected king Jesus Christ:

"12 And they stirred up the people, and the elders, and the scribes, and came upon him, and caught him, and brought him to the council, 13 And set up false witnesses, which said, This man ceaseth not to speak blasphemous words against this holy place, and the law: 14 For we have heard him say, that this Jesus of Nazareth shall destroy this place, and shall change the customs which Moses delivered us. 15 And all that sat in the council, looking stedfastly on him, saw his face as it had been the face of an angel.

51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye. 52 Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers: 53 Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it.

54 When they heard these things, they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed on him with their teeth. 55 But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God, 56 And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God. 57 Then they cried out with a loud voice, and stopped their ears, and ran upon him with one accord, 58 And cast him out of the city, and stoned him: and the witnesses laid down their clothes at a young man's feet, whose name was Saul. 59 And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit. 60 And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep.

Acts 7
King James Bible

The nation has now rejected her king for the second time and will not at this time be able to fullfill her mission. God's hidden mystery for how the nations will be reached is now laid at the feet of Saul, but the terrible prophecies of Luke are soon to be fulfilled:

"20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh. 21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto. 22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. 23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people. 24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled."

And the mystery of the ages, one body, is revealed through one man:

1 For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles, 2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward: 3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, 4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ) 5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; 6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel: 7 Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power. 8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;

Ephesians 3
King James Bible

The twice failed commission of Israel is set aside for a mystery. And when that body is complete and removed, Israel will once again be given a chance to fulfill her mission, and this time she will succeed:

"1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads. 2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps: 3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth. 4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb. 5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God."

Revelation 14
King James Bible

It is my belief that baptism was set aside as Israel was set aside. And just as the keeping of law did not abruptly end in Acts, but was slowly phased out, Baptism was too. JMHO
 

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