[stephanos]

Originally Posted by Diligent

I've never read a Tolkien book, but I sure wouldn't imply that someone who has read one is a "user of curious arts" for reading a fantasy novel.

Is practicing witchcraft permissible? Certainly not. Is reading fantasy fiction the same as practicing witchcraft? No.

Let us each be fully persuaded in our own minds and let us not be legalistic about such things.

I understand your point here brother, but just so you are aware of this, when I was a teenager, one of the reasons I was so attracted to the occult was because of the Fantasy books I was reading at the time. I wanted so badly to be a powerful wizard that when I was introduced to Wicca I dove head first. So I can attest that this literature can lead a person to the real thing. So this is why I personally try to remain on guard that I don't harm a brother by those things which I allow.

Peace and Love,
Stephen

I doubt CS Lewis' salvation because I saw a published book of letters between him and Tolkien where he basically said he wasn't saved and that his fiction books such as "the Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe" were NOT Christian fiction, they were just fantasy.

Originally Posted by Diligent

It's not a good idea to share marital disagreements like this in public.

I agree that it wouldn't be a good idea...if my husband actually cared. (Which he doesn't). He often mentions in public things we disagree on, not to fight about them but usually just a matter of fact thing, especially when people have different opinions on certain subjects such as these. My husband is not one who expects me to agree with him on everything, and he sure doesn't expect me to pretend to agree with him in public either. He's great like that.

Just remember this. Lion Witch and the Wardrobe were books read in Christian circles in the late 60s and 70s. I had all of the CoN books before even before all this witchcraft other books came out.

I enjoyed reading them like other books I had as a child. Has anyone read the Hardy Boys. Just wait someone will twist these later to be something else.

All I have to say is the modern era of thinking is read into things that are not there. Now all this has ruined my enjoyment in reading. This is because of the twisting of meaning that we who were jids in the 60s never read into our books.

All we had to worry about in the late 60s and 70s were stay away from the movie The Exorcist and Ouji boards. Then D&D came out of someone twisting JR Tolkien's books (which I have not read except The Hobbit, the others were boring to me) I hated that game and seen no since in it.

Just for the enjoyment of reading books outside of the Bible. I enjoy reading Science Fiction. Has anyone read Edgar Rice Burroughs other books about Venus and Mars. Good reading until someone starts making out something else of these too.

My grandmother encouraged my cousins brothers and sister and I all to read books that peak our interest. She did not say it directly but bad books were not encouraged. She was banned from certain books that her mother who was a daughter of a preacher would not let her read. She did read them later in her 60s and its funny but the books my great-grandmother said was bad was romance where the physical contact was at most was hand holding, seating next to the one you love. She would have been 100 this month and I have missed her wisdom and love she had for us. One great thing she was saved before she passed away.

We have started reading into to much and have ruined the innocence of reading no wonder we have a country of illiterates.

[Diligent]

Originally Posted by TomtheCat

We have started reading into to much and have ruined the innocence of reading no wonder we have a country of illiterates.

We are home schoolers, and we once had a government school teacher tell us (along with other home schoolers) that it was dangerous for us to allow our child, new at reading, to read books that featured animals speaking and engaging in other human activities. Her rationale was that children were not capable of separating fantasy from reality. We ignored her, and our son loves to read and has no trouble telling the difference between fiction and fact. He even knows (and has always known) that Santa Clause is a lie.

Anyway, this doesn't directly relate to your post, but it occurred to me when I read your last sentence up there so I figured I'd throw it in.

Good comeback. When a child learns to read they start understanding the differences from fact and fiction.

Our children were home schooled too. They became to wise in the the truth to although I think I might have given to much to one over the other. Letting them have to much truth left me with one of my kids actually going againest me after they left on their own. Then breaking the rules set down before they moved from home.

They never believed in Santa Claus or Easter Rabbit. I was public school raised and I was saved in 1971. I remember my mom (who is not a Bible Believer but she is saved) stopping us from going trick or treating years ago. For us not letting our kids do it was easy. Instead we were in church as often as we could be there outside of work or sickness.

My favorite books were my encyclopedia's.

off my soap box for now ....

[Forrest]

He even knows (and has always known) that Santa Clause is a lie.

That's funny, Brandon. We are also home schoolers and never taught the Santa thing. I'm reminded of a funny incident that occurred when my youngest daughter was about 5. When asked by a Grandparent, "What is Santa going to bring you for Christmas?" She looked puzzled and replied, "I don't know him!"

[Diligent]

Originally Posted by Forrest

That's funny, Brandon. We are also home schoolers and never taught the Santa thing. I'm reminded of a funny incident that occurred when my youngest daughter was about 5. When asked by a Grandparent, "What is Santa going to bring you for Christmas?" She looked puzzled and replied, "I don't know him!"

When our son was younger, every year I had to remind him that other children believed in this Santa Clause myth and that it wasn't our place to convince them he wasn't real. I don't think he has ever really "got" why other parents make up stories to tell their children -- and then don't tell them they are just stories!

I'm still not sure I "get" it either. We never had a hard time enjoying the season without making our boy believe in a fairy tale. I've always figured that if I expect him to believe me when I tell him about the Lord, whom he can not see, I had better not make him believe things I know aren't true!

I can see my son is a lot like me and doesn't like not telling someone the truth when he knows it. The other night we were enjoying a meal with friends who voted for Obama (yes, we have friends who voted for Obama!), and Nathan was nearly blowing his top that their boy (about his age) was glad Obama won. So it's kinda hard for him not to "spill the beans" for the other kids.

[Luke]

Originally Posted by aussiemama

I doubt CS Lewis' salvation because I saw a published book of letters between him and Tolkien where he basically said he wasn't saved and that his fiction books such as "the Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe" were NOT Christian fiction, they were just fantasy.

I think my wife has the same book. I might read that part again. She read it to me quite confused, but from my understanding, that section was written BEFORE he believed the gospel, and he was sharing his love for fiction with Tolkien, who despite being Roman Catholic, was trying to get him to understand the atonement. I know he wrote to Tolkien explaining his love for mythology such Odin, who died upon the tree for Yggdrasil (Norse mythology), and Tolkien was trying to get him to understand that the Bible was the same, except it was fact, not mythology.

Maybe I'm mistaken. Anyway, I didn't name anyone. I still think it's wrong to judge a dead man as unsaved because of bad doctrine. For example, Martin Luther believed in baptismal regeneration. Was he saved or lost?

I'll take the book to work and try and find the quote

[Forrest]

Originally Posted by Steve Schwenke

I don't think reading a fictional fantasy book which includes witchcraft and sorcery is practising witchcraft. I simply believe that it opens the door for our enemy to have an unnecessary influence - whether we realize the affects or not is irrelevant. (Actually, the most OBVIOUS affect is TOLERANCE of witchcraft!!!)
It also allows others who are watching us to question this practice, and then take what WE allow another step further.
It also allows us an open door to allow other types of books/movies in.
In my view, it is the top of the "slippery slope."

I am not being legalistic about this at all. I believe that the Bible's condemnation of sorcery, witchcraft, necromancy, etc. should be sufficient for us to NOT WANT ANYTHING TO DO WITH IT in any form. In my view, it is NOT a liberty issue, since the Bible speaks directly to the matter. To say that those passages do not apply because these books are fictional is to dismiss the relevance of the Bible.

Just because it is fiction does not negate its affects or its connections to the occult. Wiccans don't believe in practicing "black magic", they use their "arts" for "good." So just because Gandolf is a "good" wizard, doesn't make him any less evil - at least according to the Bible. Where do the "good" sorcerers get their power from anyway? The Lord? The Holy Spirit? Do they acknowledge the Holy Scriptures? If the source of their power is not the Lord, then there is only one other source left - the devil. Why play with his minions?

In Christ,

Okay, Brother Steve. As I said in my first post, we cannot be someones Holy Spirit. I sincerely appreciate your passion for the subject. I mean that. And I appreciate anyone who edifies with the word of God. But this, I think, is a case of "others may" but "I cannot." When He (the Holy Spirit) leads you to do is going to always be right. I strongly urge all of us to avoid placing one another in our "frame of reference box" regarding this particular subject.

For me, when I watched the "Lord of the Rings" trilogy, for example, I made many scriptural applications of what I know to be true. (Mainly, Good...Jesus Christ versus evil...Satan.) The Lord frequently brought various scriptures to my mind.

Here's what I do. When my inner man is troubled, or I discern or perceive in my spirit (which has been reborn and made new), that something--anything, is not right...I flee. I avoid it. I've often told my family, "I do not know why, but we do not need to read/watch that."

I know, and understand, others have a differing opinion and will judge and scrutinize the statement I just made. But I'm kind of weird guy anyway, I actually teach my family to pray for the anchors and the reporters when we watch the news on the Fox News channel! I pray for the salvation of actors and actresses, too.

We have tried to always teach our children the unfeigned word of truth. And have placed "Christ" over "character," knowing that if they love Jesus Christ first, they will have good character. They are all, by God's grace, involved in ministry. And they have no problem separating truth from reality. I think the head of a household or an individual should follow Jesus Christ and allow HIM to direct their paths. Just my take on it.