[PB1789]

JerryW--- Ditto! Bingo!

BibleStudent--- Yep!

Renee---

[Renee]

Gophgetter, Stephanos

1 Corinthians 1:10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

1 Corinthians 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.

16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.

2 Timothy 1:12 For the which cause I also suffer these things: nevertheless I am not ashamed: for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day.

Now I say He is able to keep my soul. Do you claim to be greater then The Almighty and all Powerful God who made you, that you can pluck yourself out of His, The Son, and the Holy Spirit's hand?

John 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

29My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

No God does not change His mind, neither does He lie.

Renee

[Luke]

Brethren,

1Sa 15:28 And Samuel said unto him, The LORD hath rent the kingdom of Israel from thee this day, and hath given it to a neighbour of thine, that is better than thou.
1Sa 15:29 And also the Strength of Israel will not lie nor repent: for he is not a man, that he should repent.


JerryW posted a verse before, but it wasn't from the King James, and he also left out the preceeding verse, which puts it in context. He may have been paraphrasing however.

God takes the Kingdom of Israel away from Saul, and declares he will not REPENT (change his mind). This is true. God takes the Kingdom away from Saul and gives it to David. But does this mean that God never changes his mind about anything?

Gen 6:6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.

Exo 32:14 And the LORD repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people.

Or the account of Hezekiah in 2 Kings 20:1-6 where God intends to end Hezekiah's life, but Hezekiah prays and God sends Isaiah back in the same day to tell Hezekiah he now has fifteen more years.

There are some things God changes His mind on. God does not change, but God can change His mind.

Some things He will not change His mind on

Psa 110:4 The LORD hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek.

Jesus Christ is a priest forever after the order of Melchizedek.

It's a danger for us to try and mould God to our theology. The Bible says He does change His mind on certain things. Other things He does not (like Salvation, it's a done deal).

[Diligent]

This is really not as difficult as it has been made out to be.

Because of wrong division, people have a hard time figuring out eternal security. You end up with two predominant positions:

1. Someone recognizes the truth of eternal security in salvation but breaks his neck every time he comes to a verse that says someone could lose it.

2. Someone else decides God isn't powerful enough to save someone "for good" and that somehow our works are necessary even though we have the faith of Christ (meaning CHRIST's works).

Now, me, personally: if I can lose it, it's already gone, brother. But I don't worry about that, since God gave me Christ's faith, I don't have to worry about my faith being "enough" to "keep it" (however much "enough" is).

Anyhoo, this all boils down to the Holy Spirit.

These days, we are sealed with the Spirit.

Ephesians 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Ephesians 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

Some people seem to think they are powerful enough to break the seal of the Spirit. I think that's pretty ridiculous.

The difference is that there were people who were saved but not sealed. That included David:

Psalms 51:11 Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.

And the Spirit left Saul:

1 Samuel 16:14 But the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD troubled him.

Old Testament salvation was a pretty tenuous thing and I'm quite happy I don't have to deal with that system!

[Diligent]

Originally Posted by Diligent

Now, me, personally: if I can lose it, it's already gone, brother. But I don't worry about that, since God gave me Christ's faith, I don't have to worry about my faith being "enough" to "keep it" (however much "enough" is).

I should provide references:

James 2:14-17 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

Romans 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

[peopleoftheway]

Well said Brandon and rightly divided, I do realise myself that I may be one of those that breaks their necks at verses that are thrown in as a stumbling block to my eternal salvation belief. But its all Christ Centered, I cannot stand the simplicity that is in Christ being twisted brother, I am learning more and more day by day through Bible study with the Holy Spirit and through posts from learned men and women on this forum. Long may that continue.

In My Saviour's name The LORD Jesus Christ

[Diligent]

Originally Posted by peopleoftheway

Well said Brandon and rightly divided, I do realise myself that I may be one of those that breaks their necks at verses that are thrown in as a stumbling block to my eternal salvation belief.

I should add that "break their necks" is not a pejorative term. I have always believed that my salvation was secure, but until I was shown the principles of rightly dividing Scripture, I could never quite "deal" with certain verses to my own satisfaction, so when asked to explain verses that implied loss of salvation (and I don't mean ones like 2Ti 2:12 that don't have anything to do with salvation), I would "break my neck" trying to handle them.

It's a tough thing to do, but now when I come to verses that might give me whiplash, I try not to do anything with them at all until the Lord, in his own good time, explains them to me. It saves on the chiropractor bill.

[peopleoftheway]

Brandon thank you, that simple statement you made about the verses that have been thrown at you to challenge your belief and taking time to let God show the truth in them in due course was a blessing brother. I will try not to take offence at misused scripture and mediate on the verses in question until My LORD and Saviour shows me the truth in them.
God Bless

In My Saviour's name, The LORD Jesus Christ.

[stephanos]

Originally Posted by Renee

Gophgetter, Stephanos

1 Corinthians 1:10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

1 Corinthians 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.

16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.

2 Timothy 1:12 For the which cause I also suffer these things: nevertheless I am not ashamed: for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day.

Now I say He is able to keep my soul. Do you claim to be greater then The Almighty and all Powerful God who made you, that you can pluck yourself out of His, The Son, and the Holy Spirit's hand?

John 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

29My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

No God does not change His mind, neither does He lie.

Renee

First of all Renee, you need to relax. Your responses to gophgetter concern me, and it is clear you would like to now shift the attention to myself now that you all have effectively rid yourselves of gophgetter. Throwing stones at everyone you think is wrong, and ostracizing them as heretics is NOT the way. Perhaps you should have let those who are stronger in the Scriptures help gophgetter understand the dispensational viewpoint (since I now see that this is the only acceptable viewpoint on these forums, despite diligents original intent which he expressed on http://av1611.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2). Secondly, could you not single me out like this anymore. I have always stated that salvation is by grace through faith. I do add that salvation is conditional upon "faith" but I don't see anywhere in the entire Holy Bible where this belief is contradictory to what is taught therein.

John 17:11-26 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are. While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled. And now come I to thee; and these things I speak in the world, that they might have my joy fulfilled in themselves. I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil. They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth. As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world. And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth. Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me. Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world. O righteous Father, the world hath not known thee: but I have known thee, and these have known that thou hast sent me. And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them.

I want you to know that I nearly cried when you told him that he isn't a part of the family. I assure you Renee, Christ Jesus sees things differently. You should not be so hasty to judge a brother in Christ, even one who differs greatly in his take on core doctrine. Perhaps gophgetter never heard things preached the way you and I have? Perhaps he simply needed someone to show him that salvation is indeed by grace through faith, someone besides those that write "you gotta rightly divide" on every other post. I'm not saying here I disagree with right division of Scripture, I'm saying that some people, myself included, need to hear things from those that aren't so pretentious in their own understanding, someone whose message is salted a little more with the love of the brethren.

for Jesus' sake,
Stephen

[chette777]

Originally Posted by stephanos

for Jesus' sake,
Stephen

I have heard that speach at a Ecumenical speech to unite all religions

Perhaps gophgetter never heard things preached the way you and I have? Perhaps he simply needed someone to show him that salvation is indeed by grace through faith, someone besides those that write "you gotta rightly divide" on every other post. I'm not saying here I disagree with right division of Scripture, I'm saying that some people, myself included, need to hear things from those that aren't so pretentious in their own understanding, someone whose message is salted a little more with the love of the brethren.

Gophgetter has to heard that salvation is by grace alone. and in order for he and you to get on track with correct interpretaion for the correct application (i.e.Historical, Spritual and Doctrinal) TODAY, you need to rightly divide.

no one has been pretentious in their own understanding. we learn form better men and is so doing we grow. And all our this included all helps to you and gophgetter were done in love for you, the other veiwers and posters, and for the love of the word of God.

again you better reflect on your own heart Proverbs 17:20 He that hath a froward heart findeth no good: you never find any good only hatred, stone throwing, pretentious understandings, arrogance, pride, boastfulness etc...

We can safely say your heart is not right in more than one way Stephanos.

and further more Renee is very Strong in the scriptures and more able to teach sound doctrine than you are. so pay her some respect and stop talking down to her and stop slamming the rest of us.