[pbiwolski]

Originally Posted by stephanos' friend

If Jesus was offering a literal kingdom, available immediately, why didn't He bring it when the people wanted it?

Matt. 26:56
But all this was done, that the scriptures of the prophets might be fulfilled. Then all the disciples forsook him, and fled.

You get the idea. Furthermore, what he refers to here is not how God planned for the "crowning" of Israel's King to go down.

John 6:15
When Jesus therefore perceived that they would come and take him by force, to make him a king, he departed again into a mountain himself alone.

Originally Posted by stephanos' friend

His kingdom is a different kind than Pilate and the Jews thought—not a worldly kingdom that could be established by warfare (Jn 18:36, 37).

Oops! He missed a word when he read that verse.

John 18:36
Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

Yes, it will be a "worldly kingdom...established by warfare" - no doubt about that! see Zech. 14:1-9

Originally Posted by stephanos' friend

If the Kingdom does not exist yet, why did Paul speak of it as a present reality (Col. 1:13)? If the kingdom is only for Israel, why were the Colossian gentiles part of it?

Wrong kingdom. Understanding the "kingdoms" is a must in understanding the "deeper things" of the Bible. Your friend is in error in his perception of "The Kingdom of God" (to quote him). This misunderstanding only leads to another and so on. That's why this stuff is so important.

[Forrest]

Originally Posted by pbiwolski

Wrong kingdom. Understanding the "kingdoms" is a must in understanding the "deeper things" of the Bible.

Hey Brother. If you are led by God the Holy Spirit, would you be obedient and kind enough to expound on this doctrine?

THE KINGDOM OF GOD IS:

THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN IS:

I want to understand the "deeper things" of the Bible and know that God uses others to help us grow.

[pbiwolski]

Forrest

I believe your intentions are good, and were good when you started a thread on the above mentioned kingdoms. However, I doubt that this can be (or should I say "will be") properly discussed without the eventual trainwreck ending in a "lock down."

But to answer your question in a word...

THE KINGDOM OF GOD IS: Spiritual

THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN IS: Physical

Here, I just found this and it looks pretty good. As always, it'll be subject to someone's disgruntled opinion!

http://www.kjvbible.org/thekingdoms.html

[Forrest]

Originally Posted by pbiwolski

http://www.kjvbible.org/thekingdoms.html

Thanks for the link. I've read the article and it seems to provide some really good, clear, and reasonable instruction. I'll need to continue reading the scripture and praying, however, before I'll be bold and confident enough to say I get it.

Thanks again, brother.

[Kiwi Christian]

This is only an excerpt of a larger presentation I have, hope this helps clarify some things:

Just as there are 3 Heavens, there are 3 kingdoms.
Just as there are 3 persons in the Godhead, there are 3 kingdoms (Father, Son, Holy Spirit)
Just as there are 3 parts of our being (body, soul, spirit), there are 3 kingdoms
Just as God views 3 classes of people (Jew, Gentile, Church) there are 3 kingdoms.

The Kingdom of God
The Kingdom of Heaven
The Kingdoms of the world



Christ’s Dual Message
To Jews:
Repent
From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand. Matt 4:17

To Gentiles:
Believe the Gospel
“…Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.” Mark 1:14-15

The Rejected Kingdom:
“but NOW is my kingdom not from hence…” John. 18:36
“We have no king but Caesar” John 19:15
“Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?” Acts 1:6-8
“I see…the Son of man standing… Then they cried… and stopped their ears…” Acts 7:56-57
“…the Jews…filled with envy, and spake against those things which were spoken by Paul, contradicting and blaspheming… lo, we turn to the Gentiles” Acts 13:45-49

Do Versus Done:
Kingdom of Heaven
Sermon on the Mount- Blessed are they that do…or don’t do…etc…Matt 5-7
“…he that DOETH…” Matt 7:21

Kingdom of God
“…not of works…” Eph 2:8-9; Titus 3:5
“we are HIS workmanship” Eph 2:10
“ye are God’s husbandry, ye are his building” 1 Cor 3:9
“ye are complete IN him” Col 2:10
Live by faith OF Son of God Gal 2:20

Kingdoms of the world
These are the kingdoms of a sin-cursed and fallen world. Rom 8:22
This sin curse will be lifted in the millennium.
These kingdoms are run spiritually and influenced physically by Satan (god of this world, prince of the power of the air) and his fallen “host of heaven”
These are the kingdoms that Satan offered Christ which are of no interest to Him in their present state. Matt 4:8; Luke 4:5
Christ will reign over these kingdoms AFTER He has judged the world and bound Satan Rev. 11:15

Bible Believers Baptist Church
- Pastor Thomas Mowery

[stephanos]

Thank you all. This is all good stuff. I've been thinking about sending him a copy of brother Peter Ruckman's book, "The Sure Word of Prophecy" (otherwise called The Kingdom of God versus the Kingdom of Heaven). Do anyone of you know of this book? Would it be a good one to send to my Mennonite brother?

Peace and Love,
Stephen

[Diligent]

I've read it. Bro. Ruckman's work on this topic is important, but I would strongly recommend either The Bible Believer's Guide to Dispensationalism by Walker or One Book Rightly Divided by Stauffer. They are far more accessible than Bro. Ruckman's books, in my opinion.

[MC1171611]

Originally Posted by stephanos

Thank you all. This is all good stuff. I've been thinking about sending him a copy of brother Peter Ruckman's book, "The Sure Word of Prophecy" (otherwise called The Kingdom of God versus the Kingdom of Heaven). Do anyone of you know of this book? Would it be a good one to send to my Mennonite brother?

Peace and Love,
Stephen

Docs books are great, but for someone like that I think they contain too much extra stuff that really diminishes their usefulness to a non Bible Believer. I totally love his books, so don't think I'm putting them down; he just chases way too many rabbit trails and has a hard time conveying a coherent train of thought to anyone other than a hard-core "Ruckmanite." Unfortunately I don't have any alternatives to offer, other than perhaps Stauffer's "One Book Rightly Divided." That really helped me clear up the Dispensational issue in a single reading, and it's designed for people new to the concept. Perhaps after he read that book he would be more prepared for Doc's materials.