[Biblestudent]

Sorry for "duplicating" Forrest's answer in my previous post.

Let me further add this verse to the ones given by the brethren above:

Matthew 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

The Father did not die on the cross. The Holy Spirit did not die on the cross. God sent His Son to die on the cross, and His Son is called "Jesus" for "he shall save his people from their sins; but all three have a part, and in Christ dwells all the fulness of the Godhead bodly.

Jesus called the Holy Spirit "the Holy Ghost", as well as "Comforter". On the cross, Jesus called God the Father, "Father", as well as "my God". The name "Jesus" then is exclusively of the Son of God.

[PB1789]

Bible Student:--- Very good Post ( #11)! You stated it well, and saved me from extra use of the keyboard--- .

----- ---- ----- ------ ------- --- ----- ---- --- ---- ---

Doxa: Please read the post by Bible Student in #11. It is good.

I'm not saying you are a J.W,,, But the verses that you posted in the first post of this thread ARE "standard issue" verses of groups that are known as "Oneness" or "Oneness Pentecostal". Stay away from them! That is a heresy from the early centuries of the Church. Just as the modern day J.Ws get their position from a guy named Arius (Google) , and try to make Jesus less than God, and the Mormons make him their "elder brother"--one of many Gods, the "Oneness" folks like to use certain texts to trip folks up. Very devisive. If you follow their logic... Jesus must have been talking to himself the day He was baptized in the River Jordan. {see Luke 3:21,22}

As per Matthew 28:16-20,,,, open your Bible and read the verses ahead of it and around it. The Lord Jesus was giving orders or instructions on a task/job/project {commonly called the great Commision} to the 11 Disciples. The term used there "name" is referring to what happens if you are being pulled over or "waved down" by a Law Enforcement Officer or stopped by a Sentry on duty at the guard gate at a Fort or Military Base.

When that Policeman/Deputy/Sentry raises his hand up-palm toward you and says: "Stop!--in the NAME of the Law! He means Stop by the POWER INVESTED in me by the Government/State/Local/Court.

Doxa, I don't know your age or experience but, from reading your posts so far, it seems you are young in the faith. I would suggest that you get some good helpful basic material that will give a good "picture" of what Christianity teaches. Don't be snookered/conned/hood-winked by guys like Bro. Hairspray and Rev. Glitterteeth.

If you have some extra spending money, I'd suggest that you get a little book that's been around for at least 6 decades now and will be VERY helpful explaining things. It is titled "Halley's Bible Handbook"... Articles and chapters like: How we got our Bible, to Basic Theology, to Introductions to each Book of the Bible to Archaeology and a short Church History section. New or Used. Get it. Read it. Learn it.

There is also a very helpful thing to be found in "The Open Bible" by Thomas Nelson Publishers. They have several versions now, look for the K.J./A.V. in your local store/used book store. Between the Old and New Testaments they have an excellent section titled: "The Christian Life Study Outlines and Notes". The notes are keyed to Bible verses and they even give the page number that goes with the Verse/subject. I first used it/them nearly 30 years ago as a "new" beleiver and I have it still Open on my desk as I type this.

Hope this helps you Doxa...Now get to a Book Store!

[Biblestudent]

Thanks, PB1789!

Concerning Doxa's question, John 14 also came to my mind:

John 14:13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.

14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.

John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

The Son of God has a name, and that's why we pray to the Father, in the leading of the Holy Spirit, in Jesus' name.

[/B]The Father did not die on the cross. The Holy Spirit did not die on the cross. [/QUOTE]


Greetings! Per messages previous -- I am 50 years old and got saved as a teenager; the thing is, I am thinking and hashing out things at this time. I am having quite the year, and that is a major understatement.

For example, per above quote...it was stated that the Father did not die on the cross, but in fact, Jesus stated in John 14-17 that the Father was in Him, and He was filled with the Holy Ghost. And that is very apparent when Jesus, the Sin Offering, was filled with the Holy Ghost at His water baptism.

Plus in these very chapters, Jesus said that "as the Father loved Him..."-- READ THAT IN CONTEXT!

Also, I read something very interesting some recent months about The Father and the Son and the Holy Ghost having the one and the same SOUL.

I could go on and on, but I am just thinking about some deep things, and I have been at it for a long, long time.

I guess what I am trying to say, is that I am drinking deeply from the Word and not just following protocol from teaching out of various denominations.

I just want the real Truth of the Word.

It would be like asking, IS JESUS IN THE GODHEAD or IS THE GODHEAD IN JESUS.

Whatever, you decide, you can make yourself crazy because of the amazing marvelous awesomeness of JESUS, Who is God.

Love in Jesus' Name.

[George]

Aloha Doxa,

When you start "meditating" on the Godhead - you must be very familiar with the Holy Scriptures or else you will venture out into "heresy".

The following is just a "Primer" on the "Godhead" as presented by the Scriptures (I've thrown in a comparison with man for good measure):

THE BIBLE’S DESCRIPTION OF GOD

God is a Tri-Part Being – Body, Soul, Spirit {God's "Substance"}

The substantive attributes of God are - God is: Eternal = I AM

Self Existing [without beginning or end of existence] Immortal-Perpetual-Unchangeable

Omniscient (All-Knowing - All-Seeing.)

Omnipotent (All Powerful – Unlimited Power.)

Omnipresent (Everywhere - Present in all places at the same time)

God Is A Three Part Being (Body–Soul-Spirit = Substance)

Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: {NOTICE: NOT NAMES!)

1 John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

Galatians 4:6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.

1 Peter 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

God possesses a Heart and a Mind (Faculties)

The moral attributes of God are - God is: Holy

Holy (Perfectly Pure–Sacred) {Holiness is God’s primary moral attribute}

Just (Righteous, Principled, Upright, Equitable, Impartial)
Truth (True, Genuine, Faithful, Honest, Veracity, Fidelity)
Love (Benevolence, Good Will, Charitable)
Mercy (Grace, Pardon, Compassionate, Pitiful)

God Possesses (A Heart and A Mind = Faculties){He has no "need" of a Conscience}

1 Samuel 2:35 And I will raise me up a faithful priest, that shall do according to that
which is in mine heart and in my mind: and I will build him a sure house; and he shall walk before mine anointed for ever.

Genesis 6:6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.

Genesis 8:21 And the LORD smelled a sweet savour; and the LORD said in his heart, I will not again curse the ground any more for man's sake; for the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth; neither will I again smite any more every thing living, as I have done.

Jeremiah 3:15 And I will give you pastors according to mine heart, which shall feed you with knowledge and understanding.

Acts 13:22 And when he had removed him, he raised up unto them David to be their king; to whom also he gave testimony, and said, I have found David the son of Jesse, a man after mine own heart, which shall fulfil all my will.

Job 23:13 But he is in one mind, and who can turn him? and what his soul desireth, even that he doeth.

Jeremiah 15:1 Then said the LORD unto me, Though Moses and Samuel stood before me, yet my mind could not be toward this people: cast them out of my sight, and let them go forth.

Jeremiah 44:21 The incense that ye burned in the cities of Judah, and in the streets of Jerusalem, ye, and your fathers, your kings, and your princes, and the people of the land, did not the LORD remember them, and came it not into his mind?

Romans 11:34 For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor?

1 Corinthians 2:16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.

THE BIBLE’S DESCRIPTION OF MAN

Man is a Tri-Part Being – Body, Soul, Spirit(Substance)

The substantive attributes of Man are – Man is: Mortal

(With beginning and end – Subject to Death, Judgment & Eternal Punishment)

Man has:

(Limited Knowledge & Limited Understanding)

(Limited Power & Limited Abilities)

(A Limited Presence – Confined to His Body)

Man Is a Three Part Being (Body–Soul-Spirit = Substance)

Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

1 Thessalonians 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless
unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Man possesses a Heart, a Mind, & a Conscience* (Faculties)

The moral attributes of Man are – Man is: Sinful

Sinful (Born with a sinful nature – which negatively affects all of his faculties)

* Adam was originally created in the “Image of God” (Body, Soul, Spirit, Heart, and Mind). I believe that Adam acquired a conscience along with his sinful nature (and passed these on to mankind) when Adam and Eve sinned and disobeyed God by partaking of the forbidden fruit from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

Man Possesses (a Heart, a Mind, & a Conscience = Faculties)

1 Chronicles 28:9 And thou, Solomon my son, know thou the God of thy father, and serve him with a perfect heart and with a willing mind: for the LORD searcheth all hearts, and understandeth all the imaginations of the thoughts: if thou seek him, he will be found of thee; but if thou forsake him, he will cast thee off for ever.

Matthew 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

Mark 12:30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.

Luke 10:27 And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.

Titus 1:15Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.

1 Timothy 1:5 Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned:

Hebrews 10:22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

The Main Purpose of Man’s Three (3) Faculties

The HEART - "MOTIVATES"

The MIND - "FACILITATES"

The CONSCIENCE - "REGULATES"

As you can see from the preceding, all of these things are extremely complex and way beyond our comprehension. {And I could be wrong about some of the things I have just presented.} Some "questions" may be "pondered", but there is very little "profit" in them, because some things are just simply incomprehensible to the human mind (hence "Faith"). And that is why I (more often than not), avoid addressing them. Satan has a "device" [2Corinthians 2:11] for every single Christian on this planet. We are not supposed to be "ignorant" of Satan's "devices", but sad to say - all too often we are. And what are Satan's "devices"? Anything, I repeat - ANYTHING, that "sidelines" us or "sidetracks" us from the Lord Jesus Christ and His Holy word!

I believe that many questions asked on this Forum fall into the category of:
2 Timothy 2:23 But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes.
24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,
25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

These kind of questions are unprofitable and fail to edify.
[Titus 3:9 But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.]

We should be edifying one another - NOT engaging in gnat-straining; foolish questions; contentions; and debates that serve no purpose. This whole issue (your question) is subject to confusion, chaos, and doubt and raises a "red flag" for me that somewhere in your past you have been exposed to heresy and false doctrine and have not yet discarded all of the "baggage" of the past.

You do not see Peter, James, John, or Paul engaging in these kinds of discussions (because they are "unprofitable" and subject to personal bias and interpretation). You should be asking yourself: If the Apostles didn't involve themselves in these kinds of questions - WHY am I?

The Lord Jesus Christ left us with an "outline" on how we are to pray. The Disciples "outline" for prayer (mistakenly called "The Lord's Prayer"), clearly demonstrates "HOW" we are to pray - not "WHAT".

Matthew 6:9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
Luke 11:2 And he said unto them, When ye pray, say, Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. . . . .

And so we should address the Father in prayer and pray in Jesus' name [John 14:13-14; John 15:16; John 16:23-26]

If a Christian addresses the Lord Jesus Christ in prayer or calls out to Him in need - they had better address Him as LORD! We are not on a "first name basis" with our Lord and Saviour! In our Bible - only evil spirits and devils ever addressed the Lord Jesus Christ by His first name (without the designation LORD)! {This is one of many reasons that I am leery of Pentecostalism.}

Acts 7:59 And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.

A final word of advice: Find out what the "weightier matters" [Matthew 23:23 & Luke 11:42] are and concentrate on those things and avoid "foolish and unlearned questions" - there is no "profit" in them.

[Biblestudent]

Aloha, Brother George!

Doxa, context is indeed important, and we need to keep all the verses in the context of the whole Bible as well.

For example, the Father declared that Jesus is his "beloved Son" in whom he is well pleased. Yet on the cross:

Matthew 27:46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

Isaiah 53:4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.
5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.
10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.

Galatians 3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

2 Corinthians 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Was the Father or the Holy Spirit forsaken by God?
Was the Father or the Holy Spirit smitten of God?
Did the Lord lay our sin on the Father or the Holy Spirit?
Did the Lord bruise the Father or the Holy Spirit?
Was the Father or the Holy Spirit made a curse for us?
Was the Father or the Holy Spirit made sin for us?

It is clear that these verses speak of the Son, the Lord Jesus Christ. These also show that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are all separate persons; but the the Bible has never failed to reminded us that these three are one God.
1 John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

Furthermore, where was the Father when Jesus died on the cross?
Luke 23:34 Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. ....
Matthew 27:46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, ... My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?
Luke 23:46 And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: ...

[peopleoftheway]

George
I wish I was able to call round to your house for a coffee and many hours talks about the Bible
But as I am in Northern Ireland and you are across the world, I will have to settle for coffee on my own and the posts on the forum as the talks, I pray that the LORD Jesus blesses me with at least half the knowledge and truth as he has blessed you with over the years.
The subject is always very well laid out and written In Christian love and truth
God Bless you Brother!

[George]

Originally Posted by peopleoftheway

George
I wish I was able to call round to your house for a coffee and many hours talks about the Bible
But as I am in Northern Ireland and you are across the world, I will have to settle for coffee on my own and the posts on the forum as the talks, I pray that the LORD Jesus blesses me with at least half the knowledge and truth as he has blessed you with over the years.
The subject is always very well laid out and written In Christian love and truth
God Bless you Brother!

Aloha brother,

I find that one of the great blessings (if not the greatest) is the opportunity to meet and fellowship with brethren (throughout the world) around the precious person of our Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ, and around His Holy word.

I would consider it both a privilege and an honor to be able to fellowship with you (face to face), but since you are half a world away - this Forum and e-mails, etc. will have to do until He returns. {Instead of coffee, it would have to be "tea" for me - the U.S. Navy ruined coffee drinking for me nearly 50 years ago! }

On this earth, outside of the Lord and His Holy word nothing is as precious to me as those brethren with whom I have formed deep and abiding friendships. Sad to say, I am closer to some of my Christian brethren than I am with some of my own flesh and blood.

Christian brethren with the "same mind" and of the "same heart" form relationship's that are akin to the friendship between David and Jonathan. There is nothing in the secular world that can compare with that, unless it is the bond that forms between soldiers in time of war.

May God bless you and yours always, and may you always be walking according to His will,

Yours for our Lord Jesus Christ and for His Holy word,
George Anderson

[Forrest]

"I have many things to say and to judge of you: but he that sent me is true; and I speak to the world those things which I have heard of him. They understood not that he spake to them of the Father. Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things. And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things that please him. As he spake these words, many believed on him. Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free" (John 8:26-32).

"Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me. Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word" (John 8:42-43).

God the Father is God.
God the Son is God.
God the Holy Spirit is God.

One God, three Persons.

[Forrest]

Originally Posted by George

Aloha brother,

{Instead of coffee, it would have to be "tea" for me - the U.S. Navy ruined coffee drinking for me nearly 50 years ago! }

Yours for our Lord Jesus Christ and for His Holy word,
George Anderson

Brother POTW. Think about me brother, here in Texas. I usually enjoy a fresh cup of coffee while reading and posting. (Sorry, no Irish Cream!)

Enjoy that tea Brother George, we'll pray for you!