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Old 06-28-2009, 09:32 PM
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Default The Fire

Apparently this is the next "big thing" online. First it was Paul Washer's "Shocking Sermon" and now this..

I haven't watched it.

Can someone give me the run down if they have seen it. From what I hear, he doesn't even mention salvation in it... just a message to stop sinning..

There are two parts apparently.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8APpLIWTBZE
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Old 06-28-2009, 11:02 PM
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What I got from this guy's message is that you had better hate sin enough and be good enough or Christ will say He never knew you and you will go to the Lake of Fire. What constitutes good enough is not defined. I guess he thinks there's some kind of critical mass of sin that will finally send a christian to hell.

I feel so bad for any christian who doesn't understand that Christ did it all and that there is nothing we can contribute to His salvation. I'd say to them that our hatred of sin and good works come because we have the indwelling of His Spirit in our new man. It's not possible for hatred of sin and good works not to happen, but sometimes the old man gains preeminence We'll have the old man to contend with until the day we die or are raptured. Anyone who claims they don't have this struggle is lying.

If what this guy says is true then no one will make it to heaven. It's all or nothing with God. You either try to make it through by your own righteousness or by Christs righteousness. I'm so glad He came to die for my sins so I don't have to go to that place forever and ever. Thank you, Jesus.

He referred to Christ's suffering but I didn't hear any salvation message. Maybe there was and I missed it but I am not willing to listen to that thing again.

Last edited by greenbear; 06-28-2009 at 11:10 PM.
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Old 06-29-2009, 12:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greenbear View Post
What I got from this guy's message is that you had better hate sin enough and be good enough or Christ will say He never knew you and you will go to the Lake of Fire. What constitutes good enough is not defined. I guess he thinks there's some kind of critical mass of sin that will finally send a christian to hell.

I feel so bad for any christian who doesn't understand that Christ did it all and that there is nothing we can contribute to His salvation. I'd say to them that our hatred of sin and good works come because we have the indwelling of His Spirit in our new man. It's not possible for hatred of sin and good works not to happen, but sometimes the old man gains preeminence We'll have the old man to contend with until the day we die or are raptured. Anyone who claims they don't have this struggle is lying.

If what this guy says is true then no one will make it to heaven. It's all or nothing with God. You either try to make it through by your own righteousness or by Christs righteousness. I'm so glad He came to die for my sins so I don't have to go to that place forever and ever. Thank you, Jesus.

He referred to Christ's suffering but I didn't hear any salvation message. Maybe there was and I missed it but I am not willing to listen to that thing again.
Ro 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Gal. 1:6 ¶ I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

This is what I'm talking about a lot of people out there not being Scripturally grounded and then hitting the Internet. I'm on dialup and don't take 3 hours to download videos off youtube, looks like I ain't missing much. Thanks for bringing this to our attention Luke and Jen.

I found a Grace website that has some of the best books available in free .pdf format, I spotted one on "lordship" salvation and I think I'll refresh my memory and download it.

Grace and peace friends

Tony
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Old 06-29-2009, 03:55 AM
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One of the nicest book on both the doctrine and the application of Grace was "Grace" by Lewis Sperry Chafer.

what web site was it that you found that had some good books free and in PDF?
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Old 06-29-2009, 09:33 AM
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Chette, thanks for the recommendation of "Grace" by Lewis Sperry Chafer. I'll add it to my growing list.

Tony, would you mind sharing that website you mentioned?
It has been a dozen years since I read Things That Differ, or much of anything else for that matter (including the bible), until around 6 weeks ago. I'm finding I can understand things more clearly than I did 10-15 years ago. I just started reading Stam's book again. You're right, He is calvinist. I guess I wasn't really aware of the distinction when I read it before. Still, what a great study.

Your sister in Christ,

Jennifer
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Old 06-29-2009, 02:54 PM
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This isn't a book, but it's something by Lewis Sperry Chafer called "Grace". Is this what you are thinking of Chette?

http://duluthbible.org/widgets/downl..._00_Chafer.pdf

(I am not sure if that link will work).
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Old 06-29-2009, 04:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greenbear View Post
Chette, thanks for the recommendation of "Grace" by Lewis Sperry Chafer. I'll add it to my growing list.

Tony, would you mind sharing that website you mentioned?
It has been a dozen years since I read Things That Differ, or much of anything else for that matter (including the bible), until around 6 weeks ago. I'm finding I can understand things more clearly than I did 10-15 years ago. I just started reading Stam's book again. You're right, He is calvinist. I guess I wasn't really aware of the distinction when I read it before. Still, what a great study.

Your sister in Christ,

Jennifer
http://www.dovhost.com/grace-books.htm

Luke, Jen, Chette, almost the bottom of the page is Joseph Fink's book on Lordship Salvation. Jen, things That Differ is on the top, along with much more. I found this site by accident, I googles .pdf books on Lordship Salvation and found this site. It's a goldmine. These books are free to download. I too have crave to read Things That Differ also. SOme of Ruckman's more benign Commentaries I'd love to read again too though I don't preach and teach out of a book other than the Scriptures.

Fink is KJV believer, Stam wasn't. You need to ignore his unlearned opinions on the KJV where they pop up. He was a mighty soldier for Christ and a Grace believer like me, but there's no excuse for correcting the Bible no matter who it is. Ruckman does it in his exposition on the "gap" theory in his Commentary on Genesis, so I guess it's pretty abundant on both sides the "dry cleaner" issue.

Grace and peace friends

Tony
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Old 06-29-2009, 04:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chette777 View Post
One of the nicest book on both the doctrine and the application of Grace was "Grace" by Lewis Sperry Chafer.

what web site was it that you found that had some good books free and in PDF?
My apologies friends. The book on Lordship Salvation is by Joel Finck. I'm reviving a computer, sewing rawhide, and generally doing too many things at once.

Sister Jennifer, yes, Stam was a Calvinist and a Bible corrector, but just sift him for what is true. I'm sure your perspective, like many of mine, is different now than what it once was.

Grace and peace

Tony
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Old 06-29-2009, 04:39 PM
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Oh yeah, that book by Joel Finck is great. He is a dispensationalist.. not sure if he is a grace believer, but he is definitely a right divider.
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Old 06-29-2009, 05:16 PM
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I don't mind the kind of Calvinism that Stam and Stanford express. It rarely comes across as the Reformed type does, but is more moderate. When they write, they still write as though they believe man has a free will, because they do, and try to justify it with their "compatibilist" doctrines. They are inconsistent calvinists at best, so I don't mind.

I might have to buy a few books on rightly dividing by Stam. I think Ruckman sells a few in his book store.
 

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