Bible Versions Questions and discussion about the Bible version issue.

 
 
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  #1  
Old 05-29-2009, 08:34 PM
ONEWAY
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Default Inspired Translations?

1.) Does anyone here believe that God translated, through the power of the Holy Ghost and the gift of tongues, HIS WORD into every language of the world in the 1st century?

2.) Does anyone here believe that God has preserved HIS WORD in every language of the world...not just English?

3.) Does anyone here believe in "inspired translations"?

There seems to be a lot of folks on this site who seem to think that God has only preserved HIS WORD in the English language and that He only inspired HIS WORD in the original writings. I don't really understand this position. I have never read a single book on this subject but I have read Psalms and Acts and I don't understand.
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  #2  
Old 05-29-2009, 09:01 PM
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Cody1611 Cody1611 is offline
 
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I believe that God inspired the Originals which we do not have today and also the King James Bible. I do not believe any other bible that we have today is preserved or inspired by God. I believe that people can be saved by any bible as long as it shows the plan of Salvation, which is by Faith alone in the Church Age. I believe people can be saved through a tract or even being told how to be saved.

But, I believe if someone wanted to be a serious student of the word of God, they need a King James Bible. I'm sure you can learn things in other bibles, but the other bibles just don't match up to the preserved, inspired King James Bible.

So why would God use the English language to preserve His word? Because it is the universal language. Because most Christians today speak English and God knew that, so He chose English to get the gospel out.

Why do I take such a chance? Because the fruit of the King James Bible since 1611 has been amazing. Also, the promise of the church that kept the word was given to the Philadelphia church (1500,(1611)-1990), not to the early Apostolic church (A.D. 90-200).

You might say that God never promised to inspire any translation. Nor does Matthew, Mark, John, Peter or James claim inspiration.

Why would God use the King James translators as tools? I believe because they were humble. Every other bible you read the translators boast in their work. The King James translators referred themselves as "poor instruments". We read in the Bible where God will use people with a humble heart.

I can think of three times in the Bible when God translated things and they were perfect.

2 Samuel 3:10 "To translate the kingdom from the house of Saul, and to set up the throne of David over Israel and over Judah, from Dan even to Beersheba." KJV

It was God who translated Saul's kingdom to David.

Colossians 1:13 "Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:" KJV

God translated Christians into the kingdom of Jesus Christ.

Hebrews 11:5 "By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God." KJV

God translated Enoch that he should not see death.

-------

You say you don't believe in double inspiration? What about when Moses broke the first set of the Ten Commandments? Do you believe God inspired the second set? Since we do not have the originals now, don't you think God would inspire the King James Bible?


Psalms 12:6 "The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
7 *Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever."
  #3  
Old 05-29-2009, 09:24 PM
ONEWAY
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What about all the old test. quotes found in the new test? What about Paul on the road to damascus when Jesus speaks to him the "hebrew tongue" ... Luke wrote that in greek Cody. Those are examples of "inspired translations".


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Originally Posted by Cody1611 View Post
I believe that God inspired the Originals which we do not have today and also the King James Bible. I do not believe any other bible that we have today is preserved or inspired by God. I believe that people can be saved by any bible as long as it shows the plan of Salvation, which is by Faith alone in the Church Age. I believe people can be saved through a tract or even being told how to be saved.
Faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the WORD OF GOD. No one can be saved without hearing the inspired WORD OF GOD...at least some of it.

Quote:
But, I believe if someone wanted to be a serious student of the word of God, they need a King James Bible. I'm sure you can learn things in other bibles, but the other bibles just don't match up to the preserved, inspired King James Bible.

So why would God use the English language to preserve His word? Because it is the universal language. Because most Christians today speak English and God knew that, so He chose English to get the gospel out.
Go read the first half of Acts again.

Quote:

Why do I take such a chance? Because the fruit of the King James Bible since 1611 has been amazing. Also, the promise of the church that kept the word was given to the Philadelphia church (1500,(1611)-1990), not to the early Apostolic church (A.D. 90-200).
WHAT?!?! Who told you that? please explain this point in detail.

Quote:

You might say that God never promised to inspire any translation. Nor does Matthew, Mark, John, Peter or James claim inspiration.

Why would God use the King James translators as tools? I believe because they were humble. Every other bible you read the translators boast in their work. The King James translators referred themselves as "poor instruments". We read in the Bible where God will use people with a humble heart.

I can think of three times in the Bible when God translated things and they were perfect.

2 Samuel 3:10 "To translate the kingdom from the house of Saul, and to set up the throne of David over Israel and over Judah, from Dan even to Beersheba." KJV

It was God who translated Saul's kingdom to David.

Colossians 1:13 "Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:" KJV

God translated Christians into the kingdom of Jesus Christ.

Hebrews 11:5 "By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God." KJV

God translated Enoch that he should not see death.

-------

You say you don't believe in double inspiration? What about when Moses broke the first set of the Ten Commandments? Do you believe God inspired the second set? Since we do not have the originals now, don't you think God would inspire the King James Bible?
I never said I don't believe in double inspiration...i believe in more then double but actually that is exactly what you are saying.

Quote:
Psalms 12:6 "The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
7 *Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever."
  #4  
Old 05-29-2009, 09:45 PM
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Cody1611 Cody1611 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ONEWAY View Post
What about all the old test. quotes found in the new test? What about Paul on the road to damascus when Jesus speaks to him the "hebrew tongue" ... Luke wrote that in greek Cody. Those are examples of "inspired translations".
That proves that the King James Bible is Perfect. You show me another "bible" that is perfect and we'll discuss.



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Originally Posted by ONEWAY View Post
Faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the WORD OF GOD. No one can be saved without hearing the inspired WORD OF GOD...at least some of it.
So, if I witnessed to someone and didn't have my Bible but told them how they could be saved, they couldn't get saved?




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Originally Posted by ONEWAY View Post
WHAT?!?! Who told you that? please explain this point in detail.
http://baptist1611.phpbb3now.com/vie...php?f=1&t=1466

There is a little study on the subject, but I think there is a book that describes these 7 churches and how they represent periods of history.
  #5  
Old 05-29-2009, 11:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cody1611 View Post
You say you don't believe in double inspiration? What about when Moses broke the first set of the Ten Commandments? Do you believe God inspired the second set? Since we do not have the originals now, don't you think God would inspire the King James Bible?
Since God did not inspire those words in stone, there is no double inspiration here. Not even single inspiration.

Inspiration was when Moses was writing down (on scrolls) making the form of the book (e.g. Exodus) that we see today. That was one single inspiration.

Copies were made, and the words were kept, and gathered perfectly in the KJB. The KJB is perfect. Its words are inspired. But that KJB was not made by inspiration. In the case of Exodus, inspiration happened only once, and since that time, the inspired words endured through history.
  #6  
Old 05-30-2009, 04:47 AM
Tmonk Tmonk is offline
 
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In the case of Moses its rather simple if you look at that situation from a practical point of view.

Moses got mad and broke the set of tablets made by God. When he asked God for another, God told him that he broke them so he has to do it himself.
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Old 05-30-2009, 06:34 AM
ONEWAY
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this is not true at all. ANYTHING GOD SAYS IS INSPIRED! but only the Bible (in english KJB) is a reliable record of HIS WORDS.

During the early church when the New Test. was still being written God translated HIS WORD into every language in the world. For example, someone stands up in the Corinthian church and reads Pauls letter and folks from other languages hear it in their own language then that is a perfectly "inspired translation". I have heard people argue that it wasn't God's Word that was being spoken under the gift of tongues but if people are getting saved then that proves it is God's Word. People can not be saved without hearing God's Word. faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the WORD OF GOD.

BIBLE PROTECTOR - if you think the distinction of "inspired" is between written and spoken then what about Acts 13:49 And the word of the Lord was published throughout all the region. ? you are obviously much more learned on this topic then myself but maybe it is your mixed up doctrine on gift of tongues and your zeal for australia and eng language that is causing you problems.

God died for everyone even those who wouldn't accept Him and He preserved HIS WORD in every language even in those countries who reject Him.


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Originally Posted by bibleprotector View Post
Since God did not inspire those words in stone, there is no double inspiration here. Not even single inspiration.

Inspiration was when Moses was writing down (on scrolls) making the form of the book (e.g. Exodus) that we see today. That was one single inspiration.

Copies were made, and the words were kept, and gathered perfectly in the KJB. The KJB is perfect. Its words are inspired. But that KJB was not made by inspiration. In the case of Exodus, inspiration happened only once, and since that time, the inspired words endured through history.
  #8  
Old 05-30-2009, 08:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ONEWAY View Post
this is not true at all.
It seems you are deliberately speaking in this way to provoke something.

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Originally Posted by ONEWAY View Post
ANYTHING GOD SAYS IS INSPIRED!
No, anything God says is divine and true. But what about all the prophecies that have never been given in Scripture. What about all the words that God said that were never written down. Surely, the theological term "inspiration" covers the giving of Canonical Scripture only.

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Originally Posted by ONEWAY View Post
but only the Bible (in english KJB) is a reliable record of HIS WORDS.
There are plenty of reliable records, but the most reliable is the KJB.

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Originally Posted by ONEWAY View Post
During the early church when the New Test. was still being written God translated HIS WORD into every language in the world.
No it wasn't. The Indians and aborigines did not get the word for centuries.

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Originally Posted by ONEWAY View Post
For example, someone stands up in the Corinthian church and reads Pauls letter and folks from other languages hear it in their own language then that is a perfectly "inspired translation".
That did not happen. Scripture was translated by learned people who knew two or more langauges. Tongues was used at the Corinthian Church as prophecy, or else, for their prayers. Not one verse links Holy Ghost tongues with translating Scripture.

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Originally Posted by ONEWAY View Post
I have heard people argue that it wasn't God's Word that was being spoken under the gift of tongues but if people are getting saved then that proves it is God's Word.
Who has got saved by hearing tongues? The Bible does not teach this at all.

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Originally Posted by ONEWAY View Post
People can not be saved without hearing God's Word. faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the WORD OF GOD.
Yes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ONEWAY View Post
BIBLE PROTECTOR - if you think the distinction of "inspired" is between written and spoken then what about Acts 13:49 And the word of the Lord was published throughout all the region. ?.
That has nothing to do with Holy Ghost tongues, and actually nothing to do with translation, since they spoke Greek there.

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Originally Posted by ONEWAY View Post
God died for everyone even those who wouldn't accept Him and He preserved HIS WORD in every language even in those countries who reject Him.
Yes, Christ died for all, but God's Word has not been effectively changed into all languages. Also, it is clear that the English translation is better than all others. Some dialects have no Scripture.
  #9  
Old 05-30-2009, 12:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ONEWAY View Post
this is not true at all. ANYTHING GOD SAYS IS INSPIRED! but only the Bible (in english KJB) is a reliable record of HIS WORDS.

During the early church when the New Test. was still being written God translated HIS WORD into every language in the world. For example, someone stands up in the Corinthian church and reads Pauls letter and folks from other languages hear it in their own language then that is a perfectly "inspired translation". I have heard people argue that it wasn't God's Word that was being spoken under the gift of tongues but if people are getting saved then that proves it is God's Word. People can not be saved without hearing God's Word. faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the WORD OF GOD.

BIBLE PROTECTOR - if you think the distinction of "inspired" is between written and spoken then what about Acts 13:49 And the word of the Lord was published throughout all the region. ? you are obviously much more learned on this topic then myself but maybe it is your mixed up doctrine on gift of tongues and your zeal for australia and eng language that is causing you problems.

God died for everyone even those who wouldn't accept Him and He preserved HIS WORD in every language even in those countries who reject Him.
My position is God does everything He does by "inspiration". He gave the original manuscripts by inspiration, He gives copies and translations from age to age by inspiration, and it works effectually in those who believe His words, by His inspiration. Triple Inspiration of the Scriptures. The material His words are transmitted to is not perfect, the words are perfect. The scribe and writers are not perfect, the words themselves are perfect. The Universe is not perfect, Jesus Christ was perfect, God's will is perfect, His words are perfect.

For the first time in all history, starting in 1611, we have His whole counsel gathered together in one place.

Whether or not the word of God has been preserved and given by inspiration in Zulu is something I can't speak to, I don't speak Zulu. I speak a little Russian and that's it.

Grace and peace

Tony
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Old 05-30-2009, 06:15 PM
ONEWAY
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Originally Posted by Cody1611 View Post
That proves that the King James Bible is Perfect. You show me another "bible" that is perfect and we'll discuss.
Just started researching about a week ago...will let you know. It is one of the reasons I came to this site. It is ridiculous idea that God only inspired or preserved His Word in English language.


Quote:
So, if I witnessed to someone and didn't have my Bible but told them how they could be saved, they couldn't get saved?
I didn't say that but it is a true statement that no one can be saved without hearing the Word of God. In america it is not a problem typically since most have heard but in more remote places it is a problem for soul winners who don't quote scripture. The Holy Spirit using THE WORD is what convicts and saves not us. It is like a hammer taking credit for building a house.



Quote:
http://baptist1611.phpbb3now.com/vie...php?f=1&t=1466

There is a little study on the subject, but I think there is a book that describes these 7 churches and how they represent periods of history.
don't base doctrine on man made systems...this stuff is dangerous but as way of a comment. Shouldn't you have stretched out the date for Philadelphia - meaning brotherly love (1500-1900) to say about 1970
 

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