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  #71  
Old 03-04-2009, 11:36 PM
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MC1171611 MC1171611 is offline
 
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Winman,

I already pointed out the exact same thing that you did, so you're really not offering any new information to the discussion. Other than your completely irrelevant addition about the phrase in Jeremiah, you didn't add anything to the issue at hand whatsoever.

Eve bore Cain, somehow thinking he was the "man from the Lord" that God had promised when he cursed them.

Eve again bare his brother Abel: there is no mention of Adam knowing his wife again, so either it doesn't mention it (which is unlikely, given the detail of Scripture) or they're twins. There is no reason to argue that they were not twins other than simple contrariness.

John said that Cain "was of that wicked one," so either he meant like Jesus said to the Pharisees ("ye are of your father the devil," like I mentioned already), or that Eve had actually been visited by Satan and he was the biological father of Cain, the first twin.

Why you would be so obstinate and difficult about something so simple is completely beyond my comprehension.
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  #72  
Old 03-04-2009, 11:55 PM
Winman Winman is offline
 
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Gen 4:2 does not say Eve bore twins. It says she bore Cain (Abel is not mentioned) and then said, "I have gotten a man (singular as meaning ONE)from the LORD. Just because verse 3 does not mention Adam knowing Eve again doesn't mean it didn't happen. There are lists of people born in the Bible without reference to their parent's sex life.

What bothers me is that several of you read more into the Bible than what it says. Geologist suggested that Satan (the serpent) had relations with Eve that resulted in Cain being born.

Quote:
Cain and Able were twins, the former one's father was the "serpent" and the latter one's father was Adam. Sort of twins, but not: Two babies, two fathers.
Those are Geologists words, but Gen 4:1 clearly states that Adam knew Eve and she conceived, and bare Cain (Abel is not mentioned in this verse).

Twins are mentioned in the Bible

Gen 25:24 And when her days to be delivered were fulfilled, behold, there were twins in her womb.

Gen 38:27 And it came to pass in the time of her travail, that, behold, twins were in her womb.

Now, if I were to use your logic, because twins are mentioned in Gen 25:24 and Gen 38:27, then the Bible should have also mentioned twins in Gen 4:1.

And by "your logic" I mean the highlighted statement here:

Quote:
Eve again bare his brother Abel: there is no mention of Adam knowing his wife again, so either it doesn't mention it (which is unlikely, given the detail of Scripture) or they're twins. There is no reason to argue that they were not twins other than simple contrariness.
If pointing out your errors makes me obstinate and difficult, then so be it. You see a gap that is never mentioned, Satan the serpent with Eve, and twins where there were none.

Last edited by Winman; 03-05-2009 at 12:04 AM.
  #73  
Old 03-05-2009, 01:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Winman View Post
This particular verse almost seems to be a repeat of Gen 1:2. It mentions the earth as being without form and void (not Jerusalem) and also says the heavens had no light. When was this ever the case? Since God said "Let there be light" the heavens and the earth have always had light. Jerusalem has been destroyed several times, but light did not fail from heaven.
Read on, my friend:

Jeremiah 4:23-26 "I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light. I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly. I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled. I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by his fierce anger."

There were NO CITIES at Genesis 1:2. Jeremiah 4:23-26 IS NOT A CROSS REFERENCE TO GENESIS! The passage is a reference to the Tribulation in the future and the Lord's return.
  #74  
Old 03-05-2009, 02:50 AM
kevinvw kevinvw is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chette777 View Post
Kevin.



I have my theory that God recaps certain days from day 1-7 in Genesis Chapter two.

Genesis Chapter three is the day after God's day of Rest (8th day or first day of the next week) by the end of that day the first couple sin (A man doesn't need more than a day to be tested) and God makes coats of skins via an evening sacrifice on that same day. The next day (still chapter three) God executes the sentence of his judgement and expels the couple from the Garden of Eden. It was after he sinned he calls Eve, Eve. up until their sin she is just called woman.

If you give more time in the garden before Adam's sin to allow for Lucifer fall. we run into a couple problems. first the Bible is a book of recorded history of the earth as it pertains to man and God purpose. And there is not recording anywhere that God gave Lucifer a throne before the throne. If he did where was it? on the earth? in the heavens? above the firmament?

And surely God would have let man know that he placed us under another whose name was Lucifer to whom he gave a throne. secondly, you would have to give Lucifer time to go and gather angles who are not on the earth at the time of the Garden either for the Bible mentions no such population until after the fall. again God owuld have recorded these things for us to know.

Isa 14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: this indicates that his throne was on the earth. if this throne was the one vacated by Adam. you have Lucifer rebelling after Adams sins in the Garden. If Lucifer, Satan, that old serpent, the devil are the same person. Logically it wont fit.

So Lucifer did not have a throne after the fall of Adam. So where was this throne it was on the earth according to Isa 14, it must have been in eternity before Gen1:2. And I believe it was not even his throne. I think he was in charge of helping to build a throne on the earth before Gen 1:2 and he made it so grand and glorious his heart was taken by his pride and he laid claim to it and tried to take the place of God.

Genesis Chapter Four Adam and Eve have had some children but possibly only females. then he had Cain and Able (twins) now a healthy 13 year old can work the farm and heard the sheep. When does a man become a man? When he can procreate so lets say they were 13 to 18 years old. Also chapter four tells us Cain had a wife before he was sent to the land of Nod. So it is possible Able had a wife too although we are never told because he is killed.

At the end of Chapter four we are told Adam was 130 years old when he had Seth. So from Day 6 until Seth Adams years were 130. I have no problem with that.

But to claim he was 100 when he had Cain and Able is unscriptural. Cain and Able could be anywhere form 13 to 99 years old by the time Cain slew Able. And Adam could have been anywhere in age from 14-100

See I give allowance for time. I would assume Adams aging started at the exodus from the Garden.
Eve's name was actually Adam until she had children.

Isa 14 is a future prophecy. Satan has not been cut down to the earth, and won't be until the tribulation, during which time Satan will be on a throne via the Antichrist (Which the king of Babylon, who is the actual target of Isa 14, is a type of the antichrist, but yes it is also aimed at Satan who is "behind" the king of Babylon).

Last edited by kevinvw; 03-05-2009 at 02:58 AM.
  #75  
Old 03-05-2009, 03:36 AM
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chette777 chette777 is offline
 
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Huh,

Lucifer exalting his throne is not a future prophecy. His final execution is still future yes.
  #76  
Old 03-05-2009, 03:39 AM
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"in process of time". you see how God sticks tot he 24/7 TQ he established on day one.

As for the phrase "without form, and void" in Jeremiah, that particular verse does not mention Jerusalem. Read for yourself

The Point still established the meaning of without form and void has to do with destruction in context verse ten mentions Jerusalem and the whole land that is Israel.

the heavens had no light. When was this ever the case?

Just our point the only time Darkness ever permeated the earth was After Gen 1:1 and before Gen 1:2 when the earth was in a destroyed state using the Bible meaning of without form and void.

Last edited by chette777; 03-05-2009 at 03:46 AM.
  #77  
Old 03-05-2009, 03:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MC1171611 View Post
Winman,

Why you would be so obstinate and difficult
He likes to argue and Bible Box even on simple issues.
  #78  
Old 03-05-2009, 03:52 AM
kevinvw kevinvw is offline
 
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Dan 11:36 And the king shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished: for that that is determined shall be done.
Dan 11:37 Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all.

I still think that Isa 14 is still yet future and it is the Antichrist that is saying he will exalt himself.
  #79  
Old 03-05-2009, 04:02 AM
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chette777 chette777 is offline
 
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Ok let's look at the verse.

Isa 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

now we do agree there are some similarities to the yet coming Antichrist but of course the anti-christ will be the embodiment of Lucifer if you like.

however the words say "OH HOW ART THOU FALLEN" this is clearly in English past tense so is the rest "HOW ART THOU CUT DOWN TO THE GROUND"

But some teaching form our peers such as the one "Satan will be standing at the GWT Judgement to bring accusations against men". But how can He? He has been cast into the Lake of fire already. and once your in there you never get out. No biblical proof. the point is many things have been taught by men that have influenced us all and they all have to be brought back to the scriptures and see if they hold tot he word of God

So when did Lucifer fall?

Sometime between Gen1:1 and Gen1:2
  #80  
Old 03-05-2009, 04:19 AM
kevinvw kevinvw is offline
 
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Dan 8:25 And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.

Another verse on the Antichrist.

Ok, so where is your proof that Satan is in the lake of fire already, and if he is, why are people still in bondage to him? If he has already been cut down to the ground and thrown into the lake of fire, why is it mentioned in Revelation in the future? If you want say the Isa 14 has already happened because it's written in past tense, how do you explain Isa 53 where the prophecy of Jesus is given in all 3 tenses.
 

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