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  #21  
Old 05-18-2009, 08:53 PM
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buzzoff1031 buzzoff1031 is offline
 
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Tony, thank you. THANK YOU! Not that I don't appreciate everyone else's advice. I do. It's just that Tony, you're the first one to offer it without thinking I had some hidden agenda or alterior motive. I believe I have been open and honest. Hopefully, everyone can realize that, really, I AM just confused. That is why I ask the questions I do. Not to start an argument or pick apart some doctrine or another. I just want the truth. I look forward to further discussions with you all.
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  #22  
Old 05-19-2009, 01:48 AM
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Originally Posted by buzzoff1031 View Post
Tony, thank you. THANK YOU! Not that I don't appreciate everyone else's advice. I do. It's just that Tony, you're the first one to offer it without thinking I had some hidden agenda or alterior motive. I believe I have been open and honest. Hopefully, everyone can realize that, really, I AM just confused. That is why I ask the questions I do. Not to start an argument or pick apart some doctrine or another. I just want the truth. I look forward to further discussions with you all.
Buzz, I don't mean to contradict myself, but brother, we all have an ulterior motive. We're all sinners saved by grace. I don;t know what I could possibly accuse you of or even hint at since I'm a cross between Jack The Ripper and Dracula myself. Yet due to His mercy and to His glory He died for all of us.

Confusion and struggles in the flesh are like laying a floor with green lumber. You get one end nailed down and the other one pops up. You nail it down and the end you just nailed pops up. Do you know through your own effort and labor, you can't fix that floor?

The Lord can.

You need to continue to be open and honest Buzz. I have been and will continue to be open and honest in the Dispensationalism thread. I have been and will continue to be open and honest in the Water Baptism thread. Whether I am right or wrong is not the issue to me, I was open and honest is what counts to me. The first Person you need to be open and honest with is God, we'll wait. Be open and honest with Him and the confusion disappears.

I'll tell you what you need to read before you read anything. You need to read the book of Philemon. Do you know everything Paul ever wrote could be condensed down into that one little letter? Paul(Jesus Christ) is addressing Philemon(God the Father) on behalf of Onesimus, (a sinner). Whatever he stole from you I'll pay for it. Paul(Jesus Christ) steps in between two brothers, one who has offended the other, and says to Philemon(the offended), hey, I died for Onesimus(the offender) just as I died for you, because you offended Me once, I accepted you now accept him.
The references and similitudes and like figures are almost endless. That's why in my own scholastic fury I call Philemon the "capstone" of Paul's "theology". Christ was the foundation of Paul's writing, He is the roof also.

He is the whole Building. And we are His living stones.

For my part I thank you for your kind comments. In this forum, even when we disagree, we complement as a unit each other rather than oppose each other. He is One Body and we are all part of it. A body is not fragments but each part a part of the other.

Noah's Ark, Balaam's ass, the Law, the anti-Christ and the Millenium are all yesterday and tomorrow. Romans through Philemon is who, where, and what Buzz is today.

Grace and peace to you buddy

Tony

Last edited by tonybones2112; 05-19-2009 at 01:49 AM. Reason: typo
  #23  
Old 05-19-2009, 04:49 AM
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buzz,

Just be sure it is really from your heart you will know. I said what I said to get you to a point to really seek God about it. what Tbones said is true the fact you are having a great struggle could in fact show your salvation.

I recently had one of the strangest event in my life, I fasted and cried all night because of one thing a man said to me. I can't go into the whole details but a confrontational meeting with a man who had spread rumors and lies about me in a half truth fashion ended with me being quite upset that the man refused to see it, and right there in the presence of others right to my face had lied again. Aand acted as nothing was wrong. I was ready to fume.

anyway, the mediator asked me in private after the unsuccessful meeting, "Are you saved?"

I answered, "what! of course I am saved"

he asked another Question, "They why didn't I see Christ."

If floored me. I mean it it really shook me up. I spent the next 12 hours in prayer and fasting. about 3 hours into crying out to the Lord from the roof top all alone, the Lord took me to Psalm 136 every verse said, His mercy endureth for ever.

I knew then my salvation was secured. My flesh had been in control and he took me to some other verses in James and in Philippians which guided me into what was happening as far as I was concerned.

that little event was needed and I will never will doubt again about my salvation. it involved my intellect, my emotions, my heart and my body. There were no feelings per se the Bible verse in them selves were marvelously inspirational. the tears I shed were needed forgiveness went forth to this man without him ever admitting his error. and I was free from the years of holding it in my heart all the hurt and anger and disappointment of someone who was supposed to be a leader and a living example to those of lower rank and file within our organization.

Sometimes we need times alone with God to get us where he wants us. that is why I asked the questions and proposed what I said.

God bless and we are praying for you.

Last edited by chette777; 05-19-2009 at 04:55 AM.
  #24  
Old 05-19-2009, 04:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzoff1031 View Post
Tony, thank you. THANK YOU! Not that I don't appreciate everyone else's advice. I do. It's just that Tony, you're the first one to offer it without thinking I had some hidden agenda or alterior motive. I believe I have been open and honest. Hopefully, everyone can realize that, really, I AM just confused. That is why I ask the questions I do. Not to start an argument or pick apart some doctrine or another. I just want the truth. I look forward to further discussions with you all.
Brother we can all see clearly that you are confused and the amount of advice given is certainly an indication that we care for you, we care for your position with the Saviour. If I may I would like to point you to some posts by Brother Forrest. Its based on doctrine for Christian Living, and I would have that prayerfully you read his posts that magnify the need to rest in Christ, to be content in the fact that we can DO nothing, we need to just be, for without him we are and can do, nothing.
Leave the outside world "outside" for a moment, forget the "Lordship salvationists" like comfort and Macarthur, forget the RCC, forget ALL these people that are adding to your salvation, looking for signs and wonders as "proof" you are saved. Your struggle is a war between flesh and spirit, quit seeking signs in the flesh (feelings) and concentrate on the spirit, concentrate on the word of God.

2 Corinthians 10:3 For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh:
2 Corinthians 10:4 For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;
2 Corinthians 10:5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

Have a read over Brother Forrests Posts here.

http://av1611.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1094
  #25  
Old 05-20-2009, 12:13 AM
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Ok. So let me ask one other thing. And please don't think I'm trying to "stir anything up", or anything like that. I'm pretty sure I understand Br. Forrest's posts you linked to. But is believing not doing something on our part? Or is that the whole point? We didn't even come to belief on our own. I'm still a bit confused, but I think it's clearing up a bit. I just want correct doctrines. I get that I am saved. I don't have to DO anything. It's already done. Jesus took care of it all. But again is belief not action?
  #26  
Old 05-20-2009, 12:56 AM
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Buzz,

No believing is not a work. works are outward things that can be seen, belief is an inward event that is between you and God and cannot be seen by anyone other than God. Faith is not a work it is a heart response. they are different.

Bro George said it better but I can't seem to remember to quote it. I will look for the link.
  #27  
Old 05-20-2009, 01:10 AM
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Originally Posted by buzzoff1031 View Post
Ok. So let me ask one other thing. And please don't think I'm trying to "stir anything up", or anything like that. I'm pretty sure I understand Br. Forrest's posts you linked to. But is believing not doing something on our part? Or is that the whole point? We didn't even come to belief on our own. I'm still a bit confused, but I think it's clearing up a bit. I just want correct doctrines. I get that I am saved. I don't have to DO anything. It's already done. Jesus took care of it all. But again is belief not action?
Buzz, belief is an inner operation of the spirit Read these verse, read them again, let them all tie together in your spirit:

Job 32:8 But there is a spirit in man: and the inspiration of the Almighty giveth them understanding.

Ro 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

2Th 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

Your fleshly, natural mind says there is no Jesus, there is no salvation, there is no life after this life, that you just die and rot in a grave, winked out of thought as if you never existed:

1Co 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

You've been made alive brother, by His Spirit through His word:

Ps 119:50 This is my comfort in my affliction: for thy word hath quickened me.
Ps 119:93 I will never forget thy precepts: for with them thou hast quickened me.
Eph 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
Eph 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
Col 2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
1Pe 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

We have to die inside, and let His Spirit make us alive again:

Ro 6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
1Co 15:36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:

The "actions" we perform are done after we are made one of His:

Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

I don't know what MacArthur teaches about belief, the Church Of Christ, in order to damn everyone who don't follow them or their dead works, try to say belief is a "work". They do err, not knowing the Scriptures. Christ did all the "work", then out of gratitude we do good works because we were created
to do good works, not before salvation, but after.

Eph 1:19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us–ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,

I wouldn't use the books of Sadducees like John MacArthur for toilet paper, brother Buzz, I don't want to contaminate myself. MacArthur is another Yea HAth God Said fool who denies the literal blood sacrifice, and probably the next thing he'll be saying is the cross was not necessary, only His "death" and they may as well have stuck him full of spears or beheaded Him as was the common Roman fashion. You remember this all the days of your life, this is one of the Commandments Of Tony Bonesism: If you depart one period from doctrine, you may as well depart from the whole sentence.

1Co 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Belief is an operation of your spirit, not an "action", your mind and flesh don't believe, can't believe.

Grace and peace brother

Tony

Last edited by tonybones2112; 05-20-2009 at 01:14 AM. Reason: typo
  #28  
Old 05-20-2009, 06:02 AM
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Faith.

What was the first thing that Jesus Christ almost always said to those who were weak?

“Ye of little faith”

What can you move mountains with?

Answer: Faith.

Faith is so potent that even faith the size of a mustard seed can move those mountains.

Without it God will not be pleased.

When we start leaning on other “guides” besides the Bible, we testify against ourselves that we don’t have faith in his Word.
  #29  
Old 05-20-2009, 09:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzoff1031 View Post
Ok. So let me ask one other thing. And please don't think I'm trying to "stir anything up", or anything like that. I'm pretty sure I understand Br. Forrest's posts you linked to. But is believing not doing something on our part? Or is that the whole point? We didn't even come to belief on our own. I'm still a bit confused, but I think it's clearing up a bit. I just want correct doctrines. I get that I am saved. I don't have to DO anything. It's already done. Jesus took care of it all. But again is belief not action?
Believing is not a work but it is a "do:"
Acts 16:30-31 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
  #30  
Old 05-20-2009, 11:14 PM
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Why is this so HARD for me. Why can't I just accept the gift as I once did. I know I accepted the gift at one point in my life, so therefore, I'm saved. But I've allowed myself to be so confused.
 

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