[LindaR]

Originally Posted by chette777

yeah right. anytime a person says the Greek means this or that. what they are saying is the English word as it stands is incorrect so it should say this. you did that in the New Wine thread in your post there. you corected teh English by changing the meaning of the word to fit your theology.

Secondly in the context of Prov 23 it says "instructions" at least twice in the chapter. and not only that none of us disagreed about abstenence from alcoholic beverages ever anywhere. that is where you are Fantasizing.

The Old Testament was written in Hebrew, not Greek. The HEBREW word for "look" is "ra'ah", and the meaning of this HEBREW word from Strong's is:

Strong's Hebrew Dictionary
7200. ra'ah

ra'ah raw-aw'

a primitive root; to see, literally or figuratively (in numerous applications, direct and implied, transitive, intransitive and causative):--advise self, appear, approve, behold, X certainly, consider, discern, (make to) enjoy, have experience, gaze, take heed, X indeed, X joyfully, lo, look (on, one another, one on another, one upon another, out, up, upon), mark, meet, X be near, perceive, present, provide, regard, (have) respect, (fore-, cause to, let) see(-r, -m, one another), shew (self), X sight of others, (e-)spy, stare, X surely, X think, view, visions.'ah"

In addition, the English does not correct the Hebrew.

[chette777]

Linda and BC,

BC added to the word in his post on new wine. whenever an addition to scripture is added that is a change in Gods word or a correction. go back to it and see for yourself. Even George mentions it. I said BC had done so to meet his own theology or as george put it his own Private interpretation.

click here http://av1611.com/forums/showpost.ph...5&postcount=64

I like how he didn't admit he was wrong when I showed him a vese that had God giving a COMMANDMENT to Israel to buy wine and strong drink and to enjoy it. After BC said God never allowed his people to drink wine or starng drink. Duet is a true COMMANDMENT given by God for Israel once they were in the land if they could not make it to Jerusalem for the required feasts.

Proverbs is an instruction and we would all do well to heed that instruction. But whenyour husband insinuated I advocated drink of alcholic beverages he was insulting. And then saying if I tught what Gods word says that drunkeness is a sin. Ionly pointed out God never says drinking alcholic beerages or wine is a sin. he said drunkeness is a sin.

maybe you both are to ex drunks on a kick or something. but don't put words in our mouths.

I will not post with either of you again EVER!!!

Originally Posted by chette777

Linda and BC,

BC added to the word in his post on new wine. whenever an addition to scripture is added that is a change in Gods word or a correction. go back to it and see for yourself. Even George mentions it. I said BC had done so to meet his own theology or as george put it his own Private interpretation.

click here http://av1611.com/forums/showpost.ph...5&postcount=64

I like how he didn't admit he was wrong when I showed him a vese that had God giving a COMMANDMENT to Israel to buy wine and strong drink and to enjoy it. After BC said God never allowed his people to drink wine or starng drink. Duet is a true COMMANDMENT given by God for Israel once they were in the land if they could not make it to Jerusalem for the required feasts.

Proverbs is an instruction and we would all do well to heed that instruction. But whenyour husband insinuated I advocated drink of alcholic beverages he was insulting. And then saying if I tught what Gods word says that drunkeness is a sin. Ionly pointed out God never says drinking alcholic beerages or wine is a sin. he said drunkeness is a sin.

maybe you both are to ex drunks on a kick or something. but don't put words in our mouths.

I will not post with either of you again EVER!!!

When one dismisses context, one will come to the false notion that I added to Scripture. In reality, I did not. It is those who turn the non fermented wines in the Word of God into fermented wine that are adding to Scripture... a very dangerous thing to do.

Originally Posted by Born Crucified

When one dismisses context, one will come to the false notion that I added to Scripture. In reality, I did not. It is those who turn the non fermented wines in the Word of God into fermented wine that are adding to Scripture... a very dangerous thing to do.

Not that it matters, but I happen to agree with you on the non-fermented wine issue. However, your angry, bitter dismissal of those who might see it otherwise is very unfortunate.

Incidentally, in your zeal to vilify Dr. Ruckman (post #57), you chose to completely ignore my comments about the context of Acts 10 (post #52). That, not Ruckman, was the heart of the post.

I would gently and charitably direct your attention to 1 Timothy 5:1. Perhaps it says something else in "the original Greek," but you might want to consider the English before you slander a man who has been serving God for nearly 60 years.

Like Chette, I do not think that I will be addressing you again. I hope you and your family have a long and fruitful life in God's service, and that, at some point, you will stumble across the message of 1 Corinthians 13.

Originally Posted by Vendetta Ride

Not that it matters, but I happen to agree with you on the non-fermented wine issue. However, your angry, bitter dismissal of those who might see it otherwise is very unfortunate.

I am not sure how you come up with my being angry, but that is far from the truth. I have posted the truth, not in anger, but in love. I was not dismissing them, but trying to correct them. I showed Scripture that clearly shows they are in err.

btw, anger is not necessarily bad either. Jesus got angry on more than one occasion. And His Word tells us, 'Be ye angry and sin not; let not the sun go down on your wrath. Quite obvious that some anger God allows.

But I did not post in anger as you thought.

Incidentally, in your zeal to vilify Dr. Ruckman (post #57), you chose to completely ignore my comments about the context of Acts 10 (post #52). That, not Ruckman, was the heart of the post.

Ruckman's teachings are quite evident there and I am not sure about how you see the Word of God, but I see that mine says not to even listen to false prophets. Ruckman certainly made may false prophecies concerning the Rapture, did he not? If I am not to accept his teachings, I am also not to accept the teachings of those who follow him.

I would gently and charitably direct your attention to 1 Timothy 5:1. Perhaps it says something else in "the original Greek," but you might want to consider the English before you slander a man who has been serving God for nearly 60 years.

60 years? Serving God? How so? by false prophecies? By his hateful and hurtful racial statements such as:

…people who could not invent a calendar or even a wheel…Egypt is now the exception which the monkey men use to overthrow the rule. It is an old, old story. The rule is: unless 'whitey' shows the black man how to play the piano, the tuba, the trombone, the banjo, the saxophone, the clarinet, and the trumpet, he stays squatted in front of a hollow log. Ruckman, Peter. Discrimination: The Key to Sanity. 1994, Pensacola: Bible Believers Press, p. 20

and

Negroes have to be carried. Where they are left to themselves they resort to mugging, rape, slavery, dope traffic, and eventually cannibalism. Ruckman, Peter. History of the New Testament Church. Volume 2, 1984, footnote 44.9, Chapter 11

Like Chette, I do not think that I will be addressing you again. I hope you and your family have a long and fruitful life in God's service, and that, at some point, you will stumble across the message of 1 Corinthians 13.

Since Ruckman teaches also that the KJV is Superior to the original Hebrew and Greek, I hope you stumble across a better man to promote... one that points people to Christ rather than to someone else.

In stating that the KJV in english is superior to the Originals, Ruckman is telling people that God did not know what He was saying when He gave His Word to mankind... that God's Word was not to be trusted.

Run from that false prophet. Turn your eyes from him and back to the God of the Word.

[George]

Originally Posted by chette777

Linda and BC,

BC added to the word in his post on new wine. whenever an addition to scripture is added that is a change in Gods word or a correction. go back to it and see for yourself. Even George mentions it. I said BC had done so to meet his own theology or as george put it his own Private interpretation.

click here http://av1611.com/forums/showpost.ph...5&postcount=64

I like how he didn't admit he was wrong when I showed him a vese that had God giving a COMMANDMENT to Israel to buy wine and strong drink and to enjoy it. After BC said God never allowed his people to drink wine or starng drink. Duet is a true COMMANDMENT given by God for Israel once they were in the land if they could not make it to Jerusalem for the required feasts.

Proverbs is an instruction and we would all do well to heed that instruction. But whenyour husband insinuated I advocated drink of alcholic beverages he was insulting. And then saying if I tught what Gods word says that drunkeness is a sin. Ionly pointed out God never says drinking alcholic beerages or wine is a sin. he said drunkeness is a sin.

maybe you both are to ex drunks on a kick or something. but don't put words in our mouths.

I will not post with either of you again EVER!!!

Originally Posted by chette777

I did not say the Bible does not teach against drinking. what I said was the Bible does not call drinking a sin. Drunkenness is said to be a sin. please don't put words in people mouths, and don't try too say I advocate drinking because of that statement either.

Aloha brother Chette,

The Lord Jesus Christ has commanded us to: "Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment." [John 7:24] By now you must see the "FUTILITY" in trying to deal with Christians like BC and LindaR.

Oh, and by the way BC and LindaR are married.”– although they were successful in keeping that fact from us for a while. BC”s Personal Testimony – from his only Thread:

“In December of 2004, God brought a very special woman into my life and on June 11th, 2005, we were married in a little church on a hill in New Market, Virginia"

{My perceptive wife picked up on that one long before I did!}

#1. LindaR has testified that she was married to a "drunk" for 20 years (and he died). Living with a "drunk" for 20 years could make any sane person hate all alcohol with a passion, and as such I can understand her hatred for all things connected with alcohol (my step-father was a "drunk" and died of a peptic ulcer).

#2. BC has testified that the mother of his son was killed by a "drunk driver" three days after his son's birth!

I can understand how BC and LindaR hate all alcohol (although there is no way that I can appreciate what they have gone through!). On the other hand, she and BC have taken a personal conviction and have "pushed it to the limit" and I do mean "LIMIT"! Changing the word of God to match a personal conviction is wrong - even if they have a "good" motive.

There is one thing that I notice about some of these Christians that come on this Forum and instantly engage in fierce debates, and shortly thereafter start slinging accusations around - nearly all of them have a deep seated animosity towards brother Peter Ruckman.

Notice the difference between two men who came on this Forum within a few days of each other:

Born Crucified: {Joined 10/02/08 > Threads = 1 (BC's "Intro") > Posts = 50 @ 4.92 Posts per day - {Remember what I've said about new-comers and numerous Posts? }
Biography: He gave it in his "introduction".
Location: N/A
Interests: N/A
Occupation: N/A


Vendetta Ride: {Joined 9/29/08 > Threads = 3 > Posts = 35 @ 2.71 Posts per day}
Biography: Received Christ August 1969; became Bible believer (AV1611) in 1983; graduated PBI 1989 (PBI = Pensacola Bible Institute)
Location: North Carolina
Interests: Bible study, gardening, writing, boxing, history
Occupation: Luke 19:13

Please take notice in the huge "difference" between the "attitude" and "conduct" of these two men:

"Vendetta Ride" has been a perfect "gentleman". He has been respectful; considerate; and gracious {not at all like me }. And, as of yet, he has tried to avoid any "controversy". (Strange behavior for someone who graduated from PBI - wouldn't you say? Why according to all of the Ruckman haters, all of us "Ruckmanites" are "foaming at the mouth" heretics and church dividers.

On the other hand - "Born Crucified". Has been both obnoxious and extremely irritating with his continual “rant” against brother Peter Ruckman, and some of the brethren on this Forum. {We have to ask ourselves: is this how Christian “brethren” are to conduct themselves? - Accusing the brethren? [Revelation 12:10] - I trow not!}

In his personal "Profile" (on the Forum) and in his only “Thread”, BC introduces himself as the “Rev. Ronald W. Robey” and gives us a short "biography" of his life.

For me the word "Reverend" already raises a {"Red flag" #1}. I despise "titles" amongst Christians; they are the "bane" of American Christianity (if you don't have a "Dr." before your name you can't possibly know what you are talking about! ).

I refuse to let anyone call me "pastor" (or "Reverend", etc.). Those of us who are called to be elders/pastors are no different than any other Christian men. Our "calling" may be different - but we aren't! There is no "Clergy/Laity" setup in the Bible when it comes to Christian churches, for we are "all brethren". [Matthew 23:8 But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.]

Job 32:21 Let me not, I pray you, accept any man's person, neither let me give flattering titles unto man.
22 For I know not to give flattering titles; in so doing my maker would soon take me away.

Call me "brother", but please do not call me "Pastor" Anderson or "Reverend" Anderson, I am a man, like any other man - with the same faults and weaknesses as any other man. I am no better than any other Christian. As a matter of fact, when I look back over my 50 years of being a saved, born again child of God, I have to confess that I really am not much at all!

Back to "BC". Read BC's testimony. I believe that there are some things therein that raise more "red flags" (for me at least) and may explain why he is the way he is.

BC said:

"I gave my heart to Jesus Christ there in that dirty jail cell."

When I got saved - I didn't "give my heart to Jesus". I READ and HEARD the Gospel of Christ; and then I BELIEVED on the Lord Jesus Christ; and then I RECEIVED the Lord Jesus Christ as my personal Saviour. I DID NOT "GIVE MY HEART TO JESUS"! I didn’t “GIVE” the Lord Jesus Christ ANYTHING, when I got saved. However, HE GAVE ME “ETERNAL LIFE” when I received Him as my Saviour.

We can’t “GIVE” God anything! And I “cringe” every time I hear (or read) someone say that they “GAVE their heart to Jesus” – that’s NOT THE GOSPEL! {What would the Lord Jesus Christ want with my dirty, foul, and perverse heart? Hmmm?} {Red Flag #2}


BC said:

“At the age of 13 I moved to Pennsylvania with some Mennonite friends of mine. There I was made to go to church every Sunday which was an odd experience, seeing as it was a Mennonite community. I had been raised in the Assemblies of God movement.”

(From BC”s “religious background” it is obvious that he picked up a lot of “baggage” along the way (some of which he has yet to “jettison”) {“Red flag” #3}

BC said:

“I traveled with the circus for four years as an assistant animal trainer. During my first year in the circus I met and fell in love with one of the high wire walkers. Judy was also a contortionist. Her family was from South America.

In October of 1977 my son was born in JacksonvilleFlorida. Three days later, his mother was killed in a car accident when she was broadsided by a drunk driver. One the measly pay of $75 a week I could not take care of my child. And so, I gave him over to his grandparents and aunts that were with the circus. They left the circus that week for Judy's funeral, and I never saw them again. I've heard stories from other circus members who say that my son Juan is walking the high wire like his aunts and mother did.”

God has blessed my wife and I with 7 children (4 boys & 3 girls), and over the years there have been times that we have had a real struggle providing for, and training such a large family. But, God be praised, we always managed {always with His help}. I cannot (under ANY CIRCUMSTANCES) imagine GIVING UP anyone of our children (“gifts” from God) – just because of “hard times” and “financial difficulties” – can you? {Red Flag #4}

BC said:

“Upon leaving the circus in 1979, I was arrested in Manassas, Virginia and charged with grand larceny, a crime which I did not commit. I was convicted and sent to prison with a five-year sentence.

Prison was the best thing that could have happened to me here on this earth. For it was in that prison that I realized that I was lost and in need of a Savior. A born-again Jewish chaplain, Charles Steinberg, and a Pentecostal Evangelist, J. Robert Wyatt, would come to the jailhouse twice a week and share from the Word of God with those who were interested. For the first couple weeks, I was bitter. I would just sit in my cell not wanting to hear a thing. After a while, I decided I could not do anything else so I may as well participate in the Bible study. As I would dig in the Word the Spirit would convict me more and more. I gave my heart to Jesus Christ there in that dirty jail cell. With Brother Steinberg's help, I got into a correspondent's Bible study outside the jail. Three weeks later, I was sent to the prison to serve the rest of my sentence.”

Call me a “gnat strainer” but, there is no such thing as a: “born-again Jewish chaplain”. If he is born-again, then he no longer is a “Jewish” Chaplain; he is a born again Christian Chaplain - who once was a Jew! Why the emphasis on “Jewish”? I have been born again since October of 1958 – I have never referred to myself as a born-again Scots-Irish-English-Swedish-French Canadian-American Indian Christian or elder! {Imagine my children having to identify themselves as born again Scots-Irish-English-Swedish-French Canadian-American Indian - Filipino - Chinese, and Spanish Christians!}

[Galatians 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.]

Now that doesn’t deserve a “Red Flag”, but the “Pentecostal Evangelist” does {Red Flag #5}, and why is that? Because of BC’s own confession that when he got “saved”: “I gave my heart to Jesus Christ” {Red Flag #2}. Now don’t get me wrong – I am not saying BC is not saved (only God knows his heart), but what I am saying is that “giving your heart to Jesus” is NOT the Gospel!

BC said:

“Upon my release from prison, I continued in the Word of God and study. I went to live with my Pastor and stayed with him and his family for three and a half years. During that period, I attended minister’s meetings in Berkley Springs, West Virginia and Grantsville, Maryland twice a month.”

The question arises: What kind of “pastor” is “My Pastor” Hmmm? What kind of “minister’s meetings”? You see if BC were a bit freer with this personal information we might have been able to tell “where he was coming from” sooner. {Red Flag #5} After all: “Birds of a feather flock together”!

BC said:

“I have been preaching the gospel since my release from prison. God is so good.”

“I served as an assistant pastor in Manassas, Virginia for two years before moving to Greensboro, North Carolina where I opened a fellowship called Morning Star Fellowship. I pastured in North Carolina for 6 years until I had to step down due to health problems that put me in the wheelchair. Doctors at that time told me I would spend the rest of my life in that chair. What was happening was this… When I would stand up, my blood pressure would drop and I would pass out within 8 – 10 seconds. Doctors tried several different medicines to bring my BP up, but to no avail. After four months of being in the chair, trying to stand only to fall to the floor and have to be picked up again, I told the Lord that I did not want to be in that chair any more. I told Him that I could not stand on my own and was depending on Him to keep me up. I stood that day and have not been back in that chair but a couple times since then; and that was because I was needing rest and other chairs were taken. I still have problems with my health to this date, but God has brought me out of the chair. I can walk into the doctor’s office today and the blood pressure will be ‘astronomically low’, as one nurse put it. On the average, it is around 97/61. When they scratch their heads and say, ‘I don’t know how you are standing’, I tell them, ‘I know!’ I am able to witness God’s hand upon my life!.”

“I am not going to get into BC’s health problems here at all. We have several people on this Forum who are afflicted with some serious health problems and I pray for them often - that if God won’t heal them, then that they will have the grace to say: “His grace is sufficient for me”. We lost our oldest son (at 42 years of age) over four years ago to “health problems”, so I have some idea what it’s like.

However, my problem with BC is that no where’s does he say what kind of a “church” he pastored or what kind of a “church” he started. {Red Flag #6} Why not say so? Why keep it hidden?

The way that this stranger (BC) has come into our presence with his “personal agenda” and “attitude” is typical of modern day American Christians that are: “. . . proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings, Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself." [1 Timothy 6:4-5]

I for one am going to obey the Scriptures and avoid BC. He is divisive, argumentive, accusatory, and there is absolutely no profit in trying to reason with him.

Amos 3:3 Can two walk together, except they be agreed?

[LindaR]

Originally Posted by George

Oh, and by the way BC and LindaR are married.”– although they were successful in keeping that fact from us for a while. BC”s Personal Testimony – from his only Thread:
{My perceptive wife picked up on that one long before I did!}

Is telling marital status a requirement for posting on this forum? If anybody would have read BC's testimony they would have known. We were keeping NO secrets...if you don't ask, you don't get answers. It's that simple!

There is one thing that I notice about some of these Christians that come on this Forum and instantly engage in fierce debates, and shortly thereafter start slinging accusations around - nearly all of them have a deep seated animosity towards brother Peter Ruckman.

We didn't come on this forum to start heated debates about Peter Ruckman. As a matter of fact, I was registered here in February, 2008 and only posted 10 posts, none of which were about Peter Ruckman. I took a break from forums for a few months and only 2 weeks ago started posting back in here. Almost immediately I was attacked by the "Ruckman" brigade. Your reply to my email, George, was anything but gracious. Neither my husband or I came on here with an agenda. You seem to be the one with all the accusations and judgmental comments. It's like a swimming in a pool of great white sharks in here.

Notice the difference between two men who came on this Forum within a few days of each other:

Born Crucified: {Joined 10/02/08 > Threads = 1 (BC's "Intro") > Posts = 50 @ 4.92 Posts per day - {Remember what I've said about new-comers and numerous Posts? }
Biography: He gave it in his "introduction".
Location: N/A
Interests: N/A
Occupation: N/A


Vendetta Ride: {Joined 9/29/08 > Threads = 3 > Posts = 35 @ 2.71 Posts per day}
Biography: Received Christ August 1969; became Bible believer (AV1611) in 1983; graduated PBI 1989 (PBI = Pensacola Bible Institute)
Location: North Carolina
Interests: Bible study, gardening, writing, boxing, history
Occupation: Luke 19:13

Please take notice in the huge "difference" between the "attitude" and "conduct" of these two men:

"Vendetta Ride" has been a perfect "gentleman". He has been respectful; considerate; and gracious {not at all like me }. And, as of yet, he has tried to avoid any "controversy". (Strange behavior for someone who graduated from PBI - wouldn't you say? Why according to all of the Ruckman haters, all of us "Ruckmanites" are "foaming at the mouth" heretics and church dividers.

On the other hand - "Born Crucified". Has been both obnoxious and extremely irritating with his continual “rant” against brother Peter Ruckman, and some of the brethren on this Forum. {We have to ask ourselves: is this how Christian “brethren” are to conduct themselves? - Accusing the brethren? [Revelation 12:10] - I trow not!}

God is no respecter of persons....why are you?

In his personal "Profile" (on the Forum) and in his only “Thread”, BC introduces himself as the “Rev. Ronald W. Robey” and gives us a short "biography" of his life.

For me the word "Reverend" already raises a {"Red flag" #1}. I despise "titles" amongst Christians; they are the "bane" of American Christianity (if you don't have a "Dr." before your name you can't possibly know what you are talking about! ).

I refuse to let anyone call me "pastor" (or "Reverend", etc.). Those of us who are called to be elders/pastors are no different than any other Christian men. Our "calling" may be different - but we aren't! There is no "Clergy/Laity" setup in the Bible when it comes to Christian churches, for we are "all brethren". [Matthew 23:8 But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.]

Job 32:21 Let me not, I pray you, accept any man's person, neither let me give flattering titles unto man.
22 For I know not to give flattering titles; in so doing my maker would soon take me away.

Call me "brother", but please do not call me "Pastor" Anderson or "Reverend" Anderson, I am a man, like any other man - with the same faults and weaknesses as any other man. I am no better than any other Christian. As a matter of fact, when I look back over my 50 years of being a saved, born again child of God, I have to confess that I really am not much at all!

Does Peter Ruckman not go by the name of Dr. Peter S. Ruckman? Many call him "the Doc"? Pastors do have a higher "calling" and God has given them standards to live by....read Paul's letters to Timothy and Titus. Calling someone Rev. doesn't mean we worship the person, or hold him up on a pedestal.

BTW, how come in almost every post I've read, you brag (yes, I said brag) that you have been saved 50 years?

Back to "BC". Read BC's testimony. I believe that there are some things therein that raise more "red flags" (for me at least) and may explain why he is the way he is.

My husband posted his testimony to "share" with others...but all you are doing is picking it apart piece by piece. Do you find pleasure in critiquing someone's life? Who's being judgmental here? hmmmmmm

BC said: When I got saved - I didn't "give my heart to Jesus". I READ and HEARD the Gospel of Christ; and then I BELIEVED on the Lord Jesus Christ; and then I RECEIVED the Lord Jesus Christ as my personal Saviour. I DID NOT "GIVE MY HEART TO JESUS"! I didn’t “GIVE” the Lord Jesus Christ ANYTHING, when I got saved. However, HE GAVE ME “ETERNAL LIFE” when I received Him as my Saviour.

We can’t “GIVE” God anything! And I “cringe” every time I hear (or read) someone say that they “GAVE their heart to Jesus” – that’s NOT THE GOSPEL! {What would the Lord Jesus Christ want with my dirty, foul, and perverse heart? Hmmm?} {Red Flag #2}

That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. (Romans 10:9-10)

God wants 100% commitment...that includes our heart.

If I regard iniquity in my heart, the Lord will not hear me: (Psalms 66:18)

I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. (Romans 12:1)

BC said: (From BC”s “religious background” it is obvious that he picked up a lot of “baggage” along the way (some of which he has yet to “jettison”) {“Red flag” #3}

How about telling us YOUR religious background, George? Got any baggage you picked up along the way? All we know is that you've been saved 50 years. By the tenure of your posts, I believe you still have some baggage of your own.

BC said:

"In October of 1977 my son was born in JacksonvilleFlorida. Three days later, his mother was killed in a car accident when she was broadsided by a drunk driver. One the measly pay of $75 a week I could not take care of my child. And so, I gave him over to his grandparents and aunts that were with the circus. They left the circus that week for Judy's funeral, and I never saw them again. I've heard stories from other circus members who say that my son Juan is walking the high wire like his aunts and mother did.”

God has blessed my wife and I with 7 children (4 boys & 3 girls), and over the years there have been times that we have had a real struggle providing for, and training such a large family. But, God be praised, we always managed {always with His help}. I cannot (under ANY CIRCUMSTANCES) imagine GIVING UP anyone of our children (“gifts” from God) – just because of “hard times” and “financial difficulties” – can you? {Red Flag #4}

You have absolutely no right to judge BC for giving up that child when the mother of that child was killed. He was unsaved and just 17 years old earning $75 a week. Your situation does not even compare to his...BC did the very best thing for that child by giving him to his grandparents. He was not in a position to raise a child by himself. So quit the finger pointing here. You are dead wrong.

BC said: Call me a “gnat strainer” but, there is no such thing as a: “born-again Jewish chaplain”. If he is born-again, then he no longer is a “Jewish” Chaplain; he is a born again Christian Chaplain - who once was a Jew! Why the emphasis on “Jewish”? I have been born again since October of 1958 – I have never referred to myself as a born-again Scots-Irish-English-Swedish-French Canadian-American Indian Christian or elder! {Imagine my children having to identify themselves as born again Scots-Irish-English-Swedish-French Canadian-American Indian - Filipino - Chinese, and Spanish Christians!}

Well, you are definitely being a "gnat-strainer"...I am a born again Jew and there IS such a person as a "born again Jewish chaplain" I have met many. A Jew is a Jew by ethnicity...not religion. Many Jews are only Jews by birth/ethnicity...most of the unsaved Jews living in Israel proclaim themselves to be atheists. Plus, most American Jews in the United States are non-practicing Jews (they only practice their "religion" of Judaism twice a year). Ethnicity doesn't change. I am a member of the Body of Christ...spiritually, I am a Christian...but by birth I am a Jew and will remain so until I die.

[Galatians 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

]
This means that there is no differences in the Body of Christ. We are "one new man" in Christ Jesus both Jews and Gentiles who are born again.

Now that doesn’t deserve a “Red Flag”, but the “Pentecostal Evangelist” does {Red Flag #5}, and why is that? Because of BC’s own confession that when he got “saved”: “I gave my heart to Jesus Christ” {Red Flag #2}. Now don’t get me wrong – I am not saying BC is not saved (only God knows his heart), but what I am saying is that “giving your heart to Jesus” is NOT the Gospel!

I disagree.

BC said: The question arises: What kind of “pastor” is “My Pastor” Hmmm? What kind of “minister’s meetings”? You see if BC were a bit freer with this personal information we might have been able to tell “where he was coming from” sooner. {Red Flag #5} After all: “Birds of a feather flock together”!

George, share with us where you go to church. hmmmmmm BC posted that testimony 2 weeks ago. If you had bothered to look instead of attacking us because we are not of the "Ruckman" crowd, you would have known sooner. The information was there, but you failed to look...that's not BC's fault.

BC said: “I am not going to get into BC’s health problems here at all. We have several people on this Forum who are afflicted with some serious health problems and I pray for them often - that if God won’t heal them, then that they will have the grace to say: “His grace is sufficient for me”. We lost our oldest son (at 42 years of age) over four years ago to “health problems”, so I have some idea what it’s like.

However, my problem with BC is that no where’s does he say what kind of a “church” he pastored or what kind of a “church” he started. {Red Flag #6} Why not say so? Why keep it hidden?

The name of the church was in his testimony for all to see.

The way that this stranger (BC) has come into our presence with his “personal agenda” and “attitude” is typical of modern day American Christians that are: “. . . proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings, Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself." [1 Timothy 6:4-5]

We did not come on this forum with an agenda...the agenda was already existing. As far as I'm concerned, it is the "Ruckman" crowd who is doing most of the un-Christlike attacking. I've never been on a forum board with this many "great white sharks" before. You guys go for the jugular, don't you?

I for one am going to obey the Scriptures and avoid BC. He is divisive, argumentive, accusatory, and there is absolutely no profit in trying to reason with him.

Amos 3:3 Can two walk together, except they be agreed?

You've done everything BUT avoid BC and myself.

[Diligent]

Originally Posted by LindaR

We did not come on this forum with an agenda...the agenda was already existing. As far as I'm concerned, it is the "Ruckman" crowd who is doing most of the un-Christlike attacking. I've never been on a forum board with this many "great white sharks" before. You guys go for the jugular, don't you?

Here's the problem: Born Crucified dragged Ruckman into at least two threads now when nobody else mentioned Ruckman. Seems like Ruckman is always on his mind. There is no "Ruckman Brigade" here.

Don't agree with me? You must be a Ruckmanite.

Don't think that Christians are commanded to abstian from all alcohol? Then you're a Ruckmanite! (Never mind the fact that Ruckman has the same position as you do on wine.)

Don't need the Hebrew to understand English? Ruckman!

Ruckman, Ruckman, Ruckman!

Does he live in your closet? Is the poor old man stuck under your bed, whispering "advanced revelation" in your dreams?

Come ON!

Originally Posted by Diligent

There is no "Ruckman Brigade" here.

Yes, the name "Ruckman" splits churches, and splits forums. But it's not Dr. Ruckman's followers that do it; it's those who have an almost pathological hatred for him, usually because they've absorbed the lies of his enemies.

(I refer to "Dr." Ruckman because he has an earned Doctorate from Bob Jones University - - - which is not my favorite school, but he worked hard for the degree, unlike so many pastors who have "honorary" doctorates because they've sent so many of their young people to their favorite school.) I do not refer to him, or anyone else, as "Reverend." That's humanistic, man-exalting claptrap. God is no respecter of persons, to be sure, but He probably appreciates common courtesy. "Honor to whom honor is due," you might say.)

As for the "Ruckman Brigade," I was, until tonight, unaware that there were any PBI graduates here, other than myself. We are certainly not in collusion.

I disagree with Ruckman on quite a few things, but I will not give his enemies the satisfaction of naming them; and, anyway, none of them involve Bible doctrine.

I have been well and truly blessed with many fine teachers and pastors during my life. But I will simply say what I have said elsewhere: that, by the sheer, undeserved grace of God, Ruckman is the wisest, and the kindest, man I have ever met. For this, all glory goes to God, and none to the man himself - - - except insofar as he has allowed himself to be used.

Now, if this discussion has reached its logical terminus, may we talk about Jesus for awhile?

[atlas]

Guys,

As far as any " Ruckman Brigade " goes, let me make a few statements about this issue.

Three men have taught me more about the Bible than anyone.

1. Rev. Clyde Lane

My very first pastor. He taught me to believe the Bible was God's word and I needed to be saved. This man was not right about everything, but he was a wonderful starting place for me. He and my Daddy are the sole reasons why I got saved. He prayed for me everyday and that is why the Holy Ghost would not let me go. I got saved after he died, I'll tank him one day face to face for praying for my soul. His and Daddy's prayers kept me out of hell. Bro. Lane believed the Bible till the day he died and never meet or even knew who was Ruckman as far as I know.

2. Dr. Carl T. Lackey

He helped finish the job that Bro. Lane started on, he helped get me saved. After my salvation, he helped me learn the correct Bible doctrines. He also taught me how to be a soul winner and run bus rout and teach a Sunday school class. His last words to me friend of mine while he laid dieing in his bed were, " keep the fire burning boys, keep the wood stove full of wood and help build the church for the Lord. " He also believed the Bible, no Ruckman needed. He taught all of us to believe the Bible. He also believed the Bible before he ever met Ruckman. Dr. Ruckman did preach at our Jubilee ever year. He preached there because he did believe the Bible not because he converted Preacher Lackey into believing the Bible.

3. Dr. Peter S. Ruckman

He has only helped me with my understand my doctrine better. He has taught me many wonderful things in the Bible that I did not know. he has just built on the foundation that others have built.

I'm sure many other have a story just like my story. I do not think anyone of us is part of any so called " Ruckman Brigade. " Nor have I ever met any man that is part of the so called " Ruckman Brigade. " Ruckman is just a man, a saved man that knows the Bible. Nothing more nothing less. I'm a Christian. I do not fallow Ruckman or any man. I love bro. Ruckman, but he is just a man. I believed the Bible before I ever knew who Ruckman was.

My first pastor used to tell us, " do not worry about the Greek and Hebrew. " the he would say, " worry about the Bible we have in our lap. " He never went to Duke ( that is where he was told him to go to seminary before they kicked him out of the Methodist Church back in the 1950's ) The Methodist told him to go to Duke, when he prayed God told him not to go to Duke. As he always said, " the Methodist didn't call him to preach, so they would not tell him where to go or where not to go. He was smart enough to know God did not want him there and smart enough to tell us to worry the Bible we had and.


Atlas