[greenbear]

Originally Posted by chette777

No while we know Satan as a male what would he be, male man. male ox. male lion or male eagle? Just a thought as the Bible teaches Angels are males. what sex would cherubim s and seraphim's be? most likely they are male but what type of male?

If I remember correctly, wasn't Satan a Cherub? Reptiles aren't represented by the 4 cheribim.

[chette777]

Originally Posted by greenbear

If I remember correctly, wasn't Satan a Cherub? Reptiles aren't represented by the 4 cheribim.

No where have I ever seen a reptile recorded in a description of a Cherubim either. but why are you thinking that a cherub is a reptile? because of the serpent and dragon of the Bible.

is a cherub and Cherubim the same?

sounds like a far fetch guess that Lucifer was a reptilian order. if the four cherubim around the throne all have the same description applied to them it would follow that the one that covereth would be of the same class not different.

[kevinvw]

The word cherubim isn't in the Bible, but the plural of cherub is cherubims.

[kevinvw]

Eph 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
Eph 2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
Eph 2:3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
Eph 2:4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
Eph 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved

Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Rom 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
Rom 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

The Bible says we were dead and had to be made alive, and that we by nature fulfilled the lust of the flesh and were the children of wrath.

1Pe 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

Joh 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
Joh 3:4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Joh 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

We are said to be dead in the trespasses and sins, and Peter tells us that it is the Holy Spirit that quickens us. The Holy Spirit gives us the new birth that quickens our spirit. That which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Jesus had both births simultaneously. He was born of water (physically) and of blood (God's blood, spiritually). He never walked after the flesh because He had the power of God, but that doesn't mean he couldn't have. Just like we can walk after the lusts of the flesh even though we have been born of the Spirit and have been covered in God's blood, but through the Spirit of God we can overcome our flesh, the same as Jesus did and we are told that Jesus will help us do it.

Not everything is spelled out letter for letter or word for word.

[CKG]

Originally Posted by kevinvw

The Bible says we were dead and had to be made alive, and that we by nature fulfilled the lust of the flesh and were the children of wrath.

We are said to be dead in the trespasses and sins, and Peter tells us that it is the Holy Spirit that quickens us. The Holy Spirit gives us the new birth that quickens our spirit. That which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Jesus had both births simultaneously. He was born of water (physically) and of blood (God's blood, spiritually). He never walked after the flesh because He had the power of God, but that doesn't mean he couldn't have. Just like we can walk after the lusts of the flesh even though we have been born of the Spirit and have been covered in God's blood, but through the Spirit of God we can overcome our flesh, the same as Jesus did and we are told that Jesus will help us do it.

Not everything is spelled out letter for letter or word for word.

Ephesians 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins

Most people read this verse to say “And you hath he quickened, who were born spiritually dead”. This verse says nothing about our birth state. As a matter of fact our being dead is attributed to our trespasses and sins.

Eph 2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
Eph 2:3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

Notice we walked according to the world, the prince of the power of the air and the lusts of our flesh (our 3 enemies – the world, flesh and the devil). It is because we walked according to the world, the prince of the power of the air and the lusts of our flesh that we were by nature children of wrath. That is not a statement about a “sin nature”. When it says by nature it means the natural outcome or result of walking according to the world, the prince of the power of the air and the lusts of our flesh is we are children of wrath.

Paul said “For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.” (Romans 7:9)

There was a point in Paul’s life when he became aware of his sinfulness and he says he died. God only holds us accountable for what we know. Babies, children to a certain age and severely mentally handicapped people have no knowledge of good and evil. They are not held accountable. If they die before the age of accountability they go to be with the Lord. When the children of Israel refused to enter the land God said those 20 years old and upward would perish

Numbers 14:29-31 Your carcases shall fall in this wilderness; and all that were numbered of you, according to your whole number, from twenty years old and upward which have murmured against me. Doubtless ye shall not come into the land, concerning which I sware to make you dwell therein, save Caleb the son of Jephunneh, and Joshua the son of Nun. But your little ones, which ye said should be a prey, them will I bring in, and they shall know the land which ye have despised.

Why would those under 20 not perish?

Deut 1:39 Moreover your little ones, which ye said should be a prey, and your children, which in that day had no knowledge between good and evil, they shall go in thither, and unto them will I give it, and they shall possess it.

I don’t know what the age of accountability is and it probably varies with individuals, but when a person reaches the age of knowing good and evil they are now accountable for their sins.

Sin is something we do.

Romans 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

James 4:17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

1 John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law

When we have knowingly sinned (after reaching the age of accountability) we are now dead in trespasses and sins. We have the death sentence on us. We are then children of wrath, because unless a person gets saved they will perish; experience the second death. At the Great White Throne judgment people will be judged for what they should've done, but didn't and what they did, but shouldn't have.


Jesus said we had to be born again. If we were spiritually dead like you say he would’ve said we need a resurrection, not a birth. His point was we’ve all been born of the flesh, but to enter into the kingdom of God we need to be born of the Spirit. Peter said we were quickened by the Spirit. We now have the life of God in us.

There is a raising from the dead, but it’s after the death we died with Christ.

Romans 6
1What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
2God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
3Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7For he that is dead is freed from sin.
8Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:

[greenbear]

Originally Posted by chette777

No where have I ever seen a reptile recorded in a description of a Cherubim either. but why are you thinking that a cherub is a reptile? because of the serpent and dragon of the Bible.

is a cherub and Cherubim the same?

sounds like a far fetch guess that Lucifer was a reptilian order. if the four cherubim around the throne all have the same description applied to them it would follow that the one that covereth would be of the same class not different.

Chette,

Maybe they changed when Satan fell. I read something a while ago about this. Something about watchers over different animal kinds. I don't even remember if I was swayed by it. I'll try to remember where I read it or search the scriptures. It may be a while.

[greenbear]

CKG- I'll get back to you in a few days.

[CKG]

Originally Posted by greenbear

CKG- I'll get back to you in a few days.

No problem. I don't want to come across as argumentative. Like most on this forum I'm a believer who wants to know the truth of God's word. There are areas that God has opened my eyes to (such as the Bible version issue), but when I read what others have posted on the various threads I realize what a long way I have to go. I can get in the flesh like anyone else so I have to remind myself when I post that my point is not to win the argument or debate, but to learn what the Bible says and teaches.

[greenbear]

Originally Posted by CKG

No problem. I don't want to come across as argumentative. Like most on this forum I'm a believer who wants to know the truth of God's word. There are areas that God has opened my eyes to (such as the Bible version issue), but when I read what others have posted on the various threads I realize what a long way I have to go. I can get in the flesh like anyone else so I have to remind myself when I post that my point is not to win the argument or debate, but to learn what the Bible says and teaches.

CKG,
You don't come across as argumentative to me. I'm not positive I'm right about this, but I'm pretty sure. Yet, I learned just a few days ago on this thread that I was still carrying around the SDA error that Christ was born with a sin nature.

I just got busy lately and I need time to read and consider your arguments.

Participating on this board has shown me how much others know that I don't. It's kind of humbling to find out that I don't know that much, after all. I'm like you, I want to know the truth. Even if it means I have to publicly admit that I was wrong and that's no fun at all.

Jennifer

Friends, I just wanted to repost the link to the article on the SONS OF GOD, as the original link which I put up in post no. 25 does not work, here you go:

Sons Of God... Sethites Or Fallen Angels?
"The following article is only a portion of a Biblical study on Demonology: The Doctrine of Fallen Angels- Dr. A.G. Fruchtenbaum. Dr. Fruchtenbaum is a Messianic Jewish believer and founder of ariel.org in San Antonio Texas. He comes from a family line of Levite Priest (father and grandfather) and has knowledge of scripture that is just uncanny, nonetheless having become a believer in Christ at a young age, his father threw him out of the house for converting from Judaism to Christianity at the age of 17 or 18..."
http://www.evolutionfairytale.com/fo...er&f=23&t=1327