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Old 02-01-2008, 07:34 PM
John1717
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Deuteronomy 8:3 ..but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of the LORD doth man live.
Matthew 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God

WHICH WORDS?

EVERY WORD!

WHO is the exception to this command?

1Peter 2:17 Honour all men. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honour the king.
Penned by Peter, commanded by God, CHRISTIANS were to honour CAESAR. Bloodthirsty, self aggrandizing CAESAR!

A TYRANT!! GOD SAID HONOUR HIM!!!

Was that a suggestion?

WHO, is the exception? BIBLICAL answer please.

There are no exceptions to God's COMMANDS,

but colonists made King George III an exception.

So, King Geoarge III irritated, and aggravated the colonists...YES?

Where might that have come from?

Proverbs 21:1 The king's heart is in the hand of the LORD, as the rivers of water: he turneth it whithersoever he will.

That irritation and aggravation CAME FROM GOD,

HE SAYS SO!

WHY...?

A test, would the 'Christian' colonists BELIEVE and OBEY God's Word or not.

NOT!

So, King George III became an ENEMY...YES?

So, why WASN'T this command obeyed?

Mat 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you

Some are caught in a trap!

A STUMBLINGBLOCK is a trap, set to catch those who DO NOT love and OBEY God's Truth.

The foundation of an entire nation is a STUMBLINGBLOCK,

WHY?

He STILL tests saints, WHOM will they believe?

ARE THEY TRULY SAINTS OF THE MOST HIGH GOD?

A test, a test that 'Christians' to THIS DAY, can NOT pass.

Thus, ANYONE who teaches that the colonists did RIGHT, teaches and loves a LIE more than the TRUTH.

Teaches evil as good

Isa 5:20 Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

Last edited by John1717; 02-01-2008 at 07:38 PM.
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  #2  
Old 02-01-2008, 09:05 PM
Wonderofyou
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That was highly interesting...strange, but interesting!
  #3  
Old 02-02-2008, 07:27 AM
jerry
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Quote:
Proverbs 21:1 The king's heart is in the hand of the LORD, as the rivers of water: he turneth it whithersoever he will.

That irritation and aggravation CAME FROM GOD,

HE SAYS SO!
No it does not say it came from God - the Bible does not teach that every decision made by a king is from God - this verse says God is ABLE to influence kings (that is not the same thing as stating every action of theirs is influenced by God). There are many examples of God overruling the actions and decrees of national leaders to get His will done.

I do believe in the sovereignty of God - and believe He is in control - that nothing happens unless He causes or allows it; however, that is not the same thing as stating everything that happens is by His direct decree.
  #4  
Old 02-02-2008, 09:47 AM
John1717
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supposed 'christian' men killed men BECAUSE of the aggravations of the king.

And his military,

read their complaints here
http://www.constitution.org/usdeclar.htm

Men were commanded to HONOUR Caesar, A TYRANT, 1Peter 2:17 .

The colonists called King George a TYRANT, and cried about his TYRANNY.

Quote:
repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute tyranny over these states


Where, may I ask, does persecution of believers come from?

Here's some help, who smote Job?

In any case, the command to honour the king was disobeyed, with cannon and musket fire, AND the command to love one's enemies was done away with in the same manner, and TODAY that rebellion against GOD is celebrated every year.

1Samuel 15:23 For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry
  #5  
Old 02-02-2008, 10:18 AM
John1717
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Default Then came great swellin words of worship

After the victory came the great swelling words of worship
But do good words always come from a good source?

Who said these words?

Matthew 8:29 Jesus, thou Son of God
Mark 1:24 I know thee who thou art, the Holy One of God.
Mark 3:11 Thou art the Son of God
Luke 4:41 Thou art Christ the Son of God

LOOK 'EM UP!!!

WHO SAID THESE WORDS OF WORSHIP, PRAISE AND FAITH?

DEMONS SAID THEM...!!!!

So, do GOOD words come from a GOOD source? Is it ALWAYS SO?

Now go here,

http://www.biblebelievers.com/gipp_we_americans.html

look 'em up, Who Said These words?

"My hopes of a future life are all founded upon the Gospel of Christ'
"I recommend my soul to that Almighty Being"
"I believe that there is only one living and true God"
"I subscribe to the entire belief of the great and leading doctrines of the Christian religion"

They SAY GOOD words, but their ACTIONS prove the source of those words!!

James 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

James 1:8 A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.

Romans 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

1Samuel 15:22 And Samuel said, Hath the LORD as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the LORD? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice,

Doubleminded men SAY one thing, then DO another, they offer up words of PRAISE and WORSHIP then CURSE GOD, or in the vernacular, 'flip Him OFF', with disobedience and REBELLION!

ALL CHRISTIANS,

read that again,

ALL CHRISTIANS,

DID YOU GET IT THIS TIME,

ALL CHISTIANS ARE COMMANDED TO DO THIS...

Romans 13:1 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.
Romans 13:2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.

and this...

1Peter 2:13 Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake: whether it be to the king, as supreme;
1Peter 2:14 Or unto governors, as unto them that are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers, and for the praise of them that do well.
1Peter 2:15 For so is the will of God, that with well doing ye may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men:

and this...

1Peter 2:17 Fear God. Honour the king.

But double minded, disobedient, REBELLIOUS men made WAR on a king, and KILLED men over real estate, commerce, and taxation...

AND LUST FOR NATIONHOOD!!!


Ezekiel 3:20 Again, When a righteous man doth turn from his righteousness, and commit iniquity, and I lay a stumblingblock before him, he shall die: because thou hast not given him warning, he shall die in his sin, and his righteousness which he hath done shall not be remembered; but his blood will I require at thine hand.
Ezekiel 3:21 Nevertheless if thou warn the righteous man, that the righteous sin not, and he doth not sin, he shall surely live, because he is warned; also thou hast delivered thy soul.



Men may call themselves anything they want to. Men may call themselves a 'Christian', or EVEN a Rolls Royce if they wish. But it doesn't make it so...

DOES IT?


What DOES make a Christian, a Christian?

OBEDIENCE,

John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

Luke 6:46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?

Last edited by John1717; 02-02-2008 at 10:20 AM.
  #6  
Old 02-02-2008, 10:33 AM
John1717
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Default 200 years later, AMERICANIANITY in full bloom

Americanianity is the result of believing the lie. A vile mix of Christianity and the filth of the world, where duty to God is confused with duty to a crooked and perverse nation.

The profane and the holy

Eze 44:23 And they shall teach my people the difference between the holy and profane, and cause them to discern between the unclean and the clean.

This one, 'pastor' Baldwin, doesn't know the difference between the profane and the holy. Look at what he calls sacred, and a CHRISTIANS' DUTY, the words of men, 'the constitution', then he says "and God" making them equal. http://www.newswithviews.com/baldwin/baldwin361.htm

***The American people have a sacred duty to the principles of freedom and their posterity***

A 'SACRED' DUTY TO POSTERITY, TO CONTINUE THE LYING MYTH THAT THE FOUNDERS DID WHAT WAS RIGHT? THEY DID NOT DO RIGHT, THE WORD of GOD TELLS US SO!!!

***What should matter is whether he obeys his oath to the Constitution (and to God) ***

(my BIBLE says NO OATHS, Mat 5:34 But I say unto you, Swear not at all, Jas 5:12 But above all things, my brethren, swear not)

THE WORD of GOD SAYS NO OATHS, PERIOD!!!!! CHRISTIANS MAY NOT SWEAR TO GOD TO KILL MEN TO DEFEND THE WORDS OF FALLEN MEN, THE WORD of GOD TELLS US SO

Baldwin sees himself serving God by serving a NATION, a nation God calls crooked and perverse. Php 2:15 That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation,

From whence cometh such NONSENSE?

It started when the founding fathers REBELLED AGAINST GOD ALMIGHTY!

Were they chastised? NO they were given WHAT THEY WANTED, victory, the result of their REBELLION. (they then thanked GOD for the RESULT of their REBELLION, and that folks, is SHAKING ones fist at Almighty God!)

1Sa 15:23 For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry

And as a result TODAY folks such as Baldwin THINK they do God a service in the service of a crooked and perverse nation.

Php 2:15 That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;

Neither the fumbling founding fathers nor the likes of Baldwin love the TRUTH, they LOVE THEIR SIN!

But, I'm getting ahead of myself, we need proofs from God's Word, the FINAL AUTHORITY, the authority to which ALL Christians owe OBEDIENCE!

1Sa 15:22 Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams.

Remember, the fumbling founding fathers THOUGHT it right that Peter should FIRE weapons at, and KILL Paul. The year being 1776, and Peter being English, and Paul a colonist SUBJECT of the KING!

Why did they FIGHT the king?

Their complaints are found here,

http://www.constitution.org/usdeclar.htm

NOWHERE is found BIBLICAL reason to disobey authority, NOWHERE.

What is Biblical justification for disobedience?

Read the book of Daniel, Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, were commanded to WORSHIP a wrong OBJECT, Daniel was commanded to NOT WORSHIP in a correct METHOD.

The ONLY justification for disobeying civil authority is WORSHIP.

There is NO justification for the founding father's actions in their complaints. There are many COMPLAINTS of taxation, which the Lord Jesus Christ addressed here,

Mat 22:21 Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's.

They had NO EXCUSE to disobey.

BUT that isn't the whole of the matter.

What did Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, and Daniel DO when they HAD Biblical justfication to disobey?

Did they WAR with authority? NO, they simply continued to OBEY GOD!

Which is what ALL CHRISTIANS are to do.

Act 5:29 We ought to obey God rather than men.

The fumbling founding fathers DID WHAT THEY WANTED TO, FROM THEIR OWN LUSTS FOR NATIONHOOD! Jas 4:1 From whence come wars and fightings among you? come they not hence, even of your lusts that war in your members?

They had NO love for the TRUTH!

2Th 2:10 because they received not the love of the truth,
2Th 2:11 God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

Thus they believed a LIE.

The LIE that they did RIGHT by God and were rewarded by God.

THIS IS WHAT IS CALLED A STUMBLINGBLOCK, IT COMES FROM GOD HIMSELF WHEN MEN (men of God, supposedly) SHAKE THEIR FIST AT GOD BY THANKING HIM FOR REWARDING THEIR REBELLION!

Eze 3:20 Again, When a righteous man doth turn from his righteousness, and commit iniquity, and I lay a stumblingblock before him,

The United States of America is a house built ON SIN, REBELLION AGAINST GOD ALMIGHTY!

And EVERYONE who BELIEVES THAT LIE, and believe the founding fathers did what was RIGHT and GODLY and CHRISTIAN is as guilty as the ones who founded this crooked and perverse nation on REBELLION, which IS as the sin of WITCHCRAFT!


THINK on these things next 4th of July when you celebrate the SIN of the founding fathers!

Rom 13:1 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.
Rom 13:2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.

1Pe 2:13 Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake: whether it be to the king, as supreme;
1Pe 2:14 Or unto governors, as unto them that are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers, and for the praise of them that do well.
1Pe 2:15 For so is the will of God, that with well doing ye may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men:
1Pe 2:16 As free, and not using your liberty for a cloke of maliciousness, but as the servants of God.
1Pe 2:17 Honour all men. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honour the king.


Of course you may disregard ALL of the above if you wish to believe the fumbling founding fathers didn't have to OBEY the Word of God, making them ABOVE God, as MANY believe today, making this crooked and perverse nation,

One nation ABOVE God,
indivisible - (Who Says? Paul KILLED Peter over this word in the 1860's!!)
with liberty and justice for sale - (ask O. J Simpson...LOL)

But, you say, "the king was such a baddie"

LOL... Have you EVER seen this verse?

Pro 21:1 The king's heart is in the hand of the LORD, as the rivers of water: he turneth it whithersoever he will.

King George III was EXACTLY as God would have him to be!!!
FOR HIS OWN PLEASURE AND PURPOSE!!!

It's called SOVEREIGNTY,

and

SURPRISE...

GOD IS SOVEREIGN, NOT MEN...LOL...;o)

But, you say, "did not God intend there to be a U.S. of A.?"

Of course He did, but for His own pleasure and purpose.

Remember, He also INTENDED there to be a CRUCIFIXION of His only begotten Son, but that does NOT excuse the SIN of His executioners, does it?

But, you say, "America is SO GOOD"

Do you think the Satan a FOOL? Granny down the street is GOOD, so sweet to the little children, but IF she does NOT believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, what if HER ERROR be believed for her sweetness when she denies TRUTH. The deceiver is NOT only about the likes of Hitler, Stalin, Bundy and Manson, he DECEIVES MANY with NICENESS and GOODNESS!
HE APPEARETH AS AN ANGEL OF LIGHT, that is what DECEPTION is all about!

But, you say, "we are so rich and comfortable, hasn't God BLESSED America, ?" (Job learned that his DEAD loved ones, and sore BOILS were a BLESSING, didn't he?)

Deu 8:12 Lest when thou hast eaten and art full, and hast built goodly houses, and dwelt therein;
Deu 8:13 And when thy herds and thy flocks multiply, and thy silver and thy gold is multiplied, and all that thou hast is multiplied;
Deu 8:14 Then thine heart be lifted up, and thou forget the LORD thy God,

Are you sure you understand what a stumblingblock is, or what it's PURPOSE is? Ya better check it out. Are you going to believe what you see, and experience, or GOD'S WORD?

THE TRAP OF THE LIE AND STRONG DELUSION AWAITS THOSE WHO DON'T BELIEVE THE TRUTH
  #7  
Old 02-02-2008, 12:28 PM
jerry
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Job 1 and 2 is quite clear that Satan touched Job's possessions, family, and smote him with God's persmission. We see the same thing in Luke 22:

Luke 22:31-32 And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat: But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.

Satan is God's dog - he can only go so far on his leash - only as far as God allows. But that doesn't make God responsible for what Satan does, or the cause of what Satan does.
  #8  
Old 02-02-2008, 01:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John1717 View Post
A 'SACRED' DUTY TO POSTERITY, TO CONTINUE THE LYING MYTH THAT THE FOUNDERS DID WHAT WAS RIGHT? THEY DID NOT DO RIGHT, THE WORD of GOD TELLS US SO!!!
Whether it does or not, I fail to understand what your point is. I don't think all of the founding fathers were born again Christians, but whether or not they were doesn't change the fact that the United States is a present nation. You can make your case that the rebellion and Declaration of Independence were not actions honoring the king and therefor ungodly behavior, but what does that have to do with us now? The US Government is our government and God has given it to us.
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Old 02-02-2008, 01:59 PM
John1717
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Job 2:3 ..although thou movedst me against him, to destroy him without cause

what does that mean? Who is the ME, and who is the HIM?

WHO instigated the conversation.

And Job found out that his dead relatives, and sore boils were a BLESSING...

Job 42:5 I have heard of thee by the hearing of the ear: but now mine eye seeth thee.
blessing from...WHO?
  #10  
Old 02-02-2008, 09:34 PM
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This topic interests me but I do have a few thoughts to add:

There is at least one verse that justifies rebellion....even if it is of a different kind.

What if I were to say
"Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men. Acts 5:29"?


I acknowledge that the founding fathers of America were not all Christians. There was a schism (almost perfectly in half) of the singers of the declaration of independence. Half of these men were deists (Thomas Jefferson was their champion-he cut out all Scripture that involved God communicating in any way with man), and the other half of these men were born-again Christians.

Your argument would have us believe that these men were all accursed and vile men rebelling against God. While that is up in debate, I would like to add this: In the French-Indian War (otherwise known as the Seven Years War, and sometimes known as World War 0), the French and their Native-American allies were ambushing a pack of British soldiers newly arrived from England. Since the British had their great bright coats of red, they were easy targets. They were also at a disadvantage because the British and French were used to fighting "gentleman's wars", where soldiers lined up shoulder-to-shoulder and fired in waves on the open field. However, the French and American colonists had adopted the Indian style of guerrilla warfare-so they were easy targets. Colonel George Washington warned his British superior of this before they marched into a forest, and when the ambush started, the commanding officers of the British regulars were killed. However, Washington took command and led his troops out of the forest, lest they die accomplishing nothing. There was so much gunfire around-the British were attacked from 3 sides-that Washington lost one of his horses. He grabbed another horse and continued the battle.

Why do I bother telling you this? Because after the skirmish was over, Washington's men couldn't believe what they saw-Washington's uniform had at least four holes in it-that all led right to Washington's torso-and yet there was not a scratch on him.

After the war, an Indian chief came to visit Washington and confessed to him when he found Washington that he had been amazed that this man was alive. he himself had shot him in the torso at that same battle. When he saw that Washington was untouched, he said aloud "Surely this man is protected by the Great Spirit, (Indian's main deity) we must go and meet this man"

Why would God protect such a man if he knew he was going to lead a rebellion against him? Your thoughts?

On oaths, the Jesus does not rule against oaths, he rules against swearing by something that we do not have full control over, meaning nothing. Jesus says that we should swear BY nothing.

And Matthew 5:34, look at the context!!

Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, Thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths:

"34But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne:

35Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King.

36Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair white or black.

37But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil."

Jesus is talking about when someone accuses you of lying, do not say
"I swear!" because we shouldn't have to swear to prove our honesty.
When someone whose testimony is ridiculed or questions, the person will often say "I swear!" or, "I swear to God!" Jesus is rebuking this on two fields:
-Do not swear by anything
-Do not have a doubtable reputation of honesty that you have to swear to prove your innocence/honesty



Ecclesiastes 5:4 "When thou vowest a vow unto (not by God, UNTO GOD, my note) God, defer not to pay it; for he hath no pleasure in fools: pay that which thou hast vowed."
 

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