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Old 10-12-2008, 05:03 PM
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Default The Originals and Can translation be inspired?

Born Crucified,


This post is just for you my friend.




The Originals and Can translation be inspired?


I want to know why so many use a concordance to correct the Bible?

We seem to have a few of these guys around here as of late. Their final authority is a concordance not the Bible.

Now here is the issue at hand. Many folks always want to talk about “ The Originals.” There is only one place in the Bible that deals with the issue of “ The Originals,” So let's look into the Bible and see what happened to the original of one book.

There is only one place in the Bible that deals with an original. We are going to study this and see what happens to this original. This will also tell us what God thinks about “ The Originals.” Does God put as much stock in “ The Originals ” as Christians do today? Lets find out.

Quote:
Jeremiah 36:1-4

1 And it came to pass in the fourth year of Jehoiakim the son of Josiah king of Judah, that this word came unto Jeremiah from the LORD, saying,

2 Take thee a roll of a book, and write therein all the words that I have spoken unto thee against Israel, and against Judah, and against all the nations, from the day I spake unto thee, from the days of Josiah, even unto this day.

3 It may be that the house of Judah will hear all the evil which I purpose to do unto them; that they may return every man from his evil way; that I may forgive their iniquity and their sin.

4 Then Jeremiah called Baruch the son of Neriah: and Baruch wrote from the mouth of Jeremiah all the words of the LORD, which he had spoken unto him, upon a roll of a book.
Now we see the Book of Jeremiah being written. This is the original book of Jeremiah. Take notice to verse four.

Quote:
4 Then Jeremiah called Baruch the son of Neriah: and Baruch wrote from the mouth of Jeremiah all the words of the LORD, which he had spoken unto him, upon a roll of a book.
Jeremiah told Baruch what to write and he wrote it. Now we all agree that the book of Jeremiah is God's Word. We also all agree that Jeremiah was God's man. Daniel, talked about Jeremiah. Jeremiah is listed in the Bible 133 times.

Here they are asking Baruch how he wrote the book.

Quote:
17 And they asked Baruch, saying, Tell us now, How didst thou write all these words at his mouth?

Baruch tells them how it was written.

18 Then Baruch answered them, He pronounced all these words unto me with his mouth, and I wrote them with ink in the book.
Jeremiah spoke and Baruch did the writing

Quote:
19 Then said the princes unto Baruch, Go, hide thee, thou and Jeremiah; and let no man know where ye be.

20 And they went in to the king into the court, but they laid up the roll in the chamber of Elishama the scribe, and told all the words in the ears of the king.
The king wanted to read the book and see what it said.

Quote:
21 So the king sent Jehudi to fetch the roll: and he took it out of Elishama the scribe's chamber. And Jehudi read it in the ears of the king, and in the ears of all the princes which stood beside the king.
Now it is winter time and it is cold. The king has a fire going for heat.

Quote:
22 Now the king sat in the winterhouse in the ninth month: and there was a fire on the hearth burning before him.
Now what happened to the original?

Quote:
23 And it came to pass, that when Jehudi had read three or four leaves, he cut it with the penknife, and cast it into the fire that was on the hearth, until all the roll was consumed in the fire that was on the hearth.
Well he got a few pages in his reading and it was cut with a knife and put into the fire by the king. So much for the original, God did not care enough about the original to save it from the fire. He could have, but did not do so. The original ended up where? It was in the fire and got burned up.

Now lets look at verse 27 and 28.

So now comes the copy.

Quote:
27 Then the word of the LORD came to Jeremiah, after that the king had burned the roll, and the words which Baruch wrote at the mouth of Jeremiah, saying,

28 Take thee again another roll, and write in it all the former words that were in the first roll, which Jehoiakim the king of Judah hath burned.

So God has it written again. The copy is not THE ORIGINAL. There can never be but one original of anything. There can be many copies, but there can only ever be one original.

28 Take thee again another roll, and write in it all the former words that were in the first roll, which Jehoiakim the king of Judah hath burned.
This is a copy of the original. God preserved his word with this copy. So we know we can have God's preserved word in a copy.

Quote:
32 Then took Jeremiah another roll, and gave it to Baruch the scribe, the son of Neriah; who wrote therein from the mouth of Jeremiah all the words of the book which Jehoiakim king of Judah had burned in the fire: and there were added besides unto them many like words.
Notice words were added, but they were like words. Now we are going to look and see what happened to this book, the copy. This gives you a time line. You have a copy of this copy. If you did not you would not have the book of Jeremiah in your Bible.

Quote:
Jeremiah 45:1

1 The word that Jeremiah the prophet spake unto Baruch the son of Neriah, when he had written these words in a book at the mouth of Jeremiah, in the fourth year of Jehoiakim the son of Josiah king of Judah, saying,
In the Bible Jeremiah chapters 45, 46, 47, 48, 49, 50 and 51 are the text of this copy.

Quote:
Jeremiah 51:61-63

61 And Jeremiah said to Seraiah, When thou comest to Babylon, and shalt see, and shalt read all these words;

62 Then shalt thou say, O LORD, thou hast spoken against this place, to cut it off, that none shall remain in it, neither man nor beast, but that it shall be desolate for ever.

63 And it shall be, when thou hast made an end of reading this book, that thou shalt bind a stone to it, and cast it into the midst of Euphrates:
What happened to the second copy, well he threw it into the river. God told him to read it and throw it into the river. So now we have the original burned up and the second copy in the river. The king got rid of part of the original and Jeremiah told Seraiah to throw his copy in the river.

How did we get a copy of Jeremiah when the original and the copy were both destroyed? Now where did copy number three come from? There must have been a copy number three we all have the book of Jeremiah. We know that it must be a copy and was not copied from the original. See 36:28 again.

Quote:
28 Take thee again another roll, and write in it all the former words that were in the first roll, which Jehoiakim the king of Judah hath burned.
The copy was wrote from Jeremiah talking again, and some words were added. This copy took a bath so what about copy three?

So is God worried about “ The Originals?” No not at all you should not be either. People always say well “ The Originals ” say this and “ The Originals ” say that. However God did not care about “ The Originals.” enough to keep it from burning up.

Now king Jehoiakim burned only “ three or four leaves,” of the book of Jeremiah. Here he is burning it and cutting it.

Quote:
28 Take thee again another roll, and write in it all the former words that were in the first roll, which Jehoiakim the king of Judah hath burned.
Now the copy is of chapters 45, 46, 47, 48, 49, 50 and 51 are the text of this copy. The king did not burn the whole book, only part of it. The Bible says, “ three or four leaves.” That is the same as us saying three or four pages.

Now we do not know if the book of Jeremiah copy was copied from the copy before the copy took a bath so to speak or it was written from Jeremiah speaking again. We have no idea and do not know. We do know we have a full copy of the book of Jeremiah. We do know what happened to “ The Original ” of Jeremiah and the 1st copy. The original was burned and the copy was in the river.

So what are we as Christians supposed to care about the original, or the originals? Not at all. God did not seem to care, nor should we. Many people make way to much of the originals. God only thought enough about it to put it in one place in the Bible and tell us what happened to it.

God's man got rid of the copy, and God did not care. An evil king got rid of the original and God did not care. So any person that starts all of this originals talk is way off base. The originals do not matter all of that much. You'd better worry about the Bible you've got. The Greek, Hebrew and Aramaic also do not matter that much either. God said he would preserve his word.

Quote:
Ps. 12:7

Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.

The question is did God preserve his word for his people? Yes he did. So from the point of David God's Word will be preserved for ever.
Can translation be inspired?

Many people will tell translation can not be inspired. So lets see if this is correct. Well what does the Bible say about this issue. That is what we must know. We can not take anyone's word for this. We need to look into the Bible to see if this indeed is true.

Quote:
Gen. 42:21

21 And they said one to another, We are verily guilty concerning our brother, in that we saw the anguish of his soul, when he besought us, and we would not hear; therefore is this distress come upon us.

22 And Reuben answered them, saying, Spake I not unto you, saying, Do not sin against the child; and ye would not hear? therefore, behold, also his blood is required.

23 And they knew not that Joseph understood them; for he spake unto them by an interpreter.
Now look close at verse 23 again.

Quote:
23 And they knew not that Joseph understood them; for he spake unto them by an interpreter.
Joseph did not speak to them himself, someone was his interpreter. Is this not translation? Is this inspired? Sure it is. Can God inspire translation? Yes he can, and there are many more examples.

Joseph was speaking Egyptian and translator translated it to Hebrew. This is very easy to read and understand. When Joseph spoke was he inspired? When the translator spoke was he inspired? Moses wrote the Book of Genesis, was he inspired?

Now lets look at Acts chapter 21:40 for our second example.

Quote:
40 And when he had given him licence, Paul stood on the stairs, and beckoned with the hand unto the people. And when there was made a great silence, he spake unto them in the Hebrew tongue, saying,
Now Paul is speaking “ in the Hebrew tongue,”

From Acts 22:1 to Acts 22:21

Quote:
21 And he said unto me, Depart: for I will send thee far hence unto the Gentiles.
Now verse 22 Paul starts speaking Greek again.

Now Paul stops speaking Hebrew in verse 22.

Quote:
22 And they gave him audience unto this word, and then lifted up their voices, and said, Away with such a fellow from the earth: for it is not fit that he should live.
Now the New Testament was written in Greek. Paul is speaking in “ in the Hebrew tongue,” this is also a fact. Is this part of the book of Acts inspired? Someone had to translate it back to Greek, that is how it was written. This is a fact of history.

Now you can not find one part of the book of Acts written in Hebrew, it is all in Greek. You also can not find the part of Genesis written in Egyptian as Joseph spoke to his brothers. Did God inspire translation? Can God inspire translation? Now this is in the Bible. This is a Bible fact. Now you do not have to believe this, but this is what is in the Bible. The Bible shows where translation can be and is inspired. Now Luke wrote the Book of Acts.

Quote:
Acts 1:3

It seemed good to me also, having had perfect understanding of all things from the very first, to write unto thee in order, most excellent Theophilus,
Luke and Theophilus are the same person. Now Luke wrote in Greek, he or someone must have translated it. if you want to know this for a fact look it up. It's in the Bible.

Quote:
Acts 26:13

13 At midday, O king, I saw in the way a light from heaven, above the brightness of the sun, shining round about me and them which journeyed with me.

14 And when we were all fallen to the earth, I heard a voice speaking unto me, and saying in the Hebrew tongue, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.

15 And I said, Who art thou, Lord? And he said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest.
This is Paul telling the king what happened to him. Now we have Paul telling him what Jesus said to him. All of this happened in Acts chapter nine, go read it if you wish. Acts 26 is Paul telling the king what happened to him. Take notice what Jesus language he used.

Quote:
14 And when we were all fallen to the earth, I heard a voice speaking unto me, and saying in the Hebrew tongue, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.
Jesus was using Hebrew when he was talking with Paul, “ saying in the Hebrew tongue. ”

So in Acts chapter 9 Jesus is speaking in Hebrew. We know this for a fact. So Jesus spoke Hebrew in chapter 9, no doubt about it. Is this inspired? Either it is or it is not. Now here we are again, Luke wrote it in Greek while Jesus spoke in Hebrew. So here we have inspired translation again.

Now if anyone tells you translation can not be inspired they are not using the Bible to back up this statement. Translation can be and is inspired. Here are three places in the Bible where translation is inspired.

No one can not prove from the Bible that translation can not be inspired. Now I have proven from the Bible that translation can be inspired. It can be proved in the O.T. and the N.T., as it has been proven here in this study. Now there are 30 examples. I have given you only 3, 10% of the places in the Bible that proves translation can be and is inspired. Now no one can not show me one place I the Bible where translation can not be inspired and I can show you 30 where it is. Now I have given you the 3 most powerful examples out of the 30 to back up translation can be inspired.

As far as “ The Originals ” go there is the only place in the Bible that tells what happens to an original. We see God's reaction we also see God's man, the writer of the book and his reaction. In Bible colleges all over our nation and the world. “ The Originals ” are always spoken as the only inspired Word of God. They all will tell you that a translation can not be inspired, nor can copies be inspired. We see here in the Bible that translation is inspired and a copy is inspired.

For some reason these “ men of God ” can use a Greek lexicon, Bible commentary, Strong's Concordance, Young's Concordance or Bible software to correct the Bible. I'll tell you that 99.99% of the people out there that correct the Bible do so with what I have listed here. ( Greek lexicon, Bible commentary, Strong's Concordance, Young's Concordance or Bible software. ) Most can not read Greek or Hebrew. The just go get a few bible study tools and use those tools to correct the Bible. Let me say this in closing. Strong's Concordance is not the final authority. Strong's Concordance is not God's word. Not one of these tools did God ordain nor are they perfect.

If the Bible says one thing and the Greek lexicon, Bible commentary, Strong's Concordance, Young's Concordance or Bible software says something else who is right? What is preserved by God? See this is the real issue at hand. What is your final authority? Is it a concordance with Greek words or is it the Bible?

Quote:
Psalms 12:6 & 7

6 The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.

7 Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.

Atlas

Last edited by atlas; 10-12-2008 at 05:22 PM.
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  #2  
Old 10-12-2008, 05:37 PM
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atlas atlas is offline
 
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Bump!!!!!!





Atlas
  #3  
Old 10-12-2008, 06:06 PM
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God bless Atlas, good post

Amen

But I am confused about one part..

How are Luke and Theophilus the same person?
  #4  
Old 10-12-2008, 07:28 PM
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atlas atlas is offline
 
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Luke,

Quote:
How are Luke and Theophilus the same person?
Here read Acts 1:1.

Quote:
Acts 1:1

The former treatise have I made, O Theophilus, of all that Jesus began both to do and teach,

There Luke, is this better?

I made a mistake when writing.

Luke wrote Acts to Theophilus, they are not the person. But the book of Luke is to Theophilus also.


Quote:
It seemed good to me also, having had perfect understanding of all things from the very first, to write unto thee in order, most excellent Theophilus,
Both books are written to Theophilus. This is how we know Luke wrote Acts and the book of Luke. This is the tie that binds them together.

Atlas
  #5  
Old 10-12-2008, 07:47 PM
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Thanks

I knew that Acts and Luke were both written by Luke, to Theophilus.. I just got confused when you said they were the same person, because it would make it seem as though Luke thought very highly of himself hehe

Thanks.
  #6  
Old 10-12-2008, 08:04 PM
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atlas atlas is offline
 
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Luke,

Yea sorry about that. That was a lot of writing my friend. To about the mistake.

I wonder why, BC aka, Born Crucified, aka Bible Corrector has not posted a reply as of yet? He's a big Strong's man. I hope he replies very soon indeed. I want to hear his thought on this issue, I'm sure he will use Strong's or Young's to correct me.

It's funny many of the Bible correctors can not even read Greek or Hebrew. I'd love to have him here with me and my Hebrew O.T. and have him tell me in person what it says. We could have a few of my Jewish Rabbi friends tell me if he was right and if he can indeed read Hebrew.


Atlas
  #7  
Old 10-12-2008, 08:16 PM
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I want to know what the name "Born Crucified" even means. Some names don't need an explanation. Some are just unique or different (Vendetta Ride for example), but a name like Born Crucified needs an explanation please.
  #8  
Old 10-13-2008, 12:37 AM
Steven Avery Steven Avery is offline
 
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Default Theophilus, High Priest

Hi Folks,

Quote:
Originally Posted by atlas
Luke wrote Acts to Theophilus, they are not the person. But the book of Luke is to Theophilus also...Both books are written to Theophilus. This is how we know Luke wrote Acts and the book of Luke. This is the tie that binds them together.
And Theophilus was the Jewish high-priest 41 AD. Thus we know when Luke was written, and more about the original intro and personal audience. This also helps with the context of some other references. Acts was about 61 AD, when Matthais, son of Theophilus (Matthias ben Theophilus) was high-priest. (Done from memory, maybe a bit later, 62-63, the exact year can be significant in chronology research.)

Shalom,
Steven

PS.
No, you won't find this in a lot of Commentaries. This is all a bit too simple and too clear and too true to be accepted. And too early for the liberal scholarship of doubt. They also don't like the fact that you don't have to be a rocket scientist and arcana aficionado to appreciate the accuracy of a rather obvious relationship (once you have seen the factual backdrop).

Last edited by Steven Avery; 10-13-2008 at 12:47 AM.
  #9  
Old 10-13-2008, 05:19 AM
fundy
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Hi Atlas,

Great post, Hope you dont mind, I have saved it to a "my documents" file for use at our Bible study.

fundy
  #10  
Old 10-13-2008, 09:22 AM
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Fundy,


Glad you it. Sure you can keep it and use it. I hope it helps someone.


Atlas
 

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