Bible Versions Questions and discussion about the Bible version issue.

 
 
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  #21  
Old 04-13-2009, 02:58 PM
peopleoftheway peopleoftheway is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Jordan View Post
Alright. Well I am not coming back to this place, that's for sure, I don't feel like being around hateful, legalistic people.
I can testify that Brother George is neither hateful nor legalistic, but simply a Brother who stands for the Word of God and cannot abide it being rode over roughshot. Are you sure you are not coming back to this forum because your motives have been brought to Light using scripture? and the Holy spirit of God may have pricked your conscience as to your error in your approach?

I perceive you may have come to the forum to gather information to conclude KJV onlyists (And I do not like that term Id much prefer Bible Believer) are hateful people?? Dont you be a Hypocrite and Judge a Brother when you dont know him shortly after posting on him Judging you and not knowing you, he Judged your intentions on the forum from your OWN words, you Judged him as a person.
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  #22  
Old 04-13-2009, 03:16 PM
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Fredoheaven Fredoheaven is offline
 
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Default I Know, you know they remove verses and stuff

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Originally Posted by Jordan View Post
Can someone show/tell me why these manuscripts are wrong? I know they remove verses and stuff, but I'm just searching for some info here.
Hi, I'm a new here and have read some of your post examined by sir George. Well, I'm just wondering / bothered why you post this question that you have really answered. If so, the changing (adding, removing, altering etc.) can be found in the verses such as...ah no more I know, you know them already more than I do. But anyway, here what our Lord Jesus Christ had said against the Sadduces in His time. In Matthew 22:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.. Here is what I learned corcerning this statement of our Lord. We ERR because of the the ff:

1. We do not Searched the Scriptures. To searched simply means we are to look over carefully. This is what the Berean did in Acts 17:11 "...they received the word with all readiness of mind, and search the scriptures daily, whether those things were so." With all their seaching they received the pure words of God of what Paul and Silas have preached. Today we have the preserved, pure words of God in the KJV and we need to searched it and believe like those Bereans. The Bible says in v.12 " Therefore, many of them believed;also of honorable women who were Greeks, and of the men, not a few". I'll still find another spiritual application of this verse telling us that we may belong to the "men, not a few". Again in John 5:39 our Lord insisted that we need to searched the scriptures.

2. We do not Study the Scriptures. Studying involves the rightly dividing the Word( 2 Timothy 2:15). Of course, anyone dividing the word needs the power of God. We need the Holy Spirit to teach us. It seems to me that it is really disgracefull that some rely informations only in the web for their study and not actually studying, praying earnestly in the Spirit, which results only to what Paul said in 2 Timothy 3:7 "Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth". Of course, I am not against the internet based information but what I am against is that it becomes above the word of God. Mens opinion are not to be equated with the words of God.

3. We do not Saturate our minds with the Scriptures. This simply means we no longer fill in or memorized the Scriptures. I know this is the surest way to victory over sin, doubt and despair. In Joshua 1:8 sure we all know it the promise of God to those who will not depart and meditate and observe to do accordingly what is written therein. This is the word of God or the KJV all about.

1 Timothy 6:20 O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called:
1 Timothy 6:21 Which some professing have erred concerning the faith. Grace be with thee. Amen.


Jude 25
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  #23  
Old 04-13-2009, 03:39 PM
Bro. Parrish
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Originally Posted by Jordan View Post
Alright. Well I am not coming back to this place, that's for sure, I don't feel like being around hateful, legalistic people.
Ahh, Jordan my "young squire"...
I had hoped that your year long stay here would have convinced you of your errors. I guess mean old Bro. Parrish pulled the cover off your magic show, eh? The puppet strings have been revealed, and now you are mad. Well I have a message for you---I hope you don't get mad Jordan, I hope you get sad. Sad about the doubt you have attempted to cast on God's Holy Bible.

Please REPENT of your confusion and start honoring God's Word, young man.
I assure you the Truth is yours if you only seek it, and I pray you will see the light on the issue of Bible translations. Otherwise you are stumbling in darkness and the mire of men's scholarship... you have a lot of life ahead of you, and I exhort you to live it in TRUTH! I hope you will use this exhortation for a time of introspect, then come back one day and tell me how you changed for the better. Look carefully for your beliefs in the leaven below, and I hope you don't see yourself in the mirror my young friend...



THE CREED OF THE ALEXANDRIAN CULT

by Peter Ruckman


1. There is NO FINAL AUTHORITY but God.

2. Since God is a SPIRIT, there is NO FINAL AUTHORITY that can be seen, heard, read, felt or handled.

3. Since all books are MATERIAL, there is NO BOOK ON THIS EARTH THAT IS THE FINAL AND ABSOLUTE AUTHORITY on what is right and what is wrong; what constitutes TRUTH and what constitutes ERROR.

4. There WAS a series of writings one time which, IF they had all been put into a BOOK as soon as they were written the first time, WOULD HAVE constituted an infallible and final authority by which to judge truth and error.

5. However, this series of writings was LOST, and the God Who inspired them was UNABLE TO PRESERVE THEIR CONTENT through Bible-believing Christians at Antioch (Syria), where the first Bible teachers were (Acts 13:1), and where the first missionary trip originated (Acts 13:1-6), and where the word "CHRISTIAN" originated (Acts 11:26).

6. So, God chose to ALMOST preserve them through Gnostics and philosophers from Alexandria, Egypt, even though God called HIS SON OUT of Egypt (Mat. 2), JACOB OUT of Egypt (Gen. 49), ISRAEL OUT of Egypt (Exod. 15), and JOSEPH'S BONES OUT of Egypt (Exod. 13).

7. So, there are two streams of Bibles: the most accurate - though, of course, there is NO FINAL, ABSOLUTE AUTHORITY FOR DETERMINING TRUTH AND ERROR: it is a matter of "preference" - are the Egyptian translations from Alexandria, Egypt, which are "almost the originals," although NOT QUITE.

8. The most INACCURATE TRANSLATIONS were those that brought about the GERMAN REFORMATION (Luther, Zwingli, Boehler, Zinzendorf, Spener, etc.) and the worldwide MISSIONARY MOVEMENT of the English speaking people: the Bible that Sunday, Torrey, Moody, Finney, Spurgeon, Whitfield, Wesley, and Chapman used.

9. But we can "tolerate" these if those who believe in them will tolerate US. After all, since THERE IS NO ABSOLUTE AND FINAL AUTHORITY THAT ANYONE CAN READ, TEACH, PREACH, OR HANDLE, the whole thing is a matter of "PREFERENCE." You may prefer what you prefer, and we will prefer what WE prefer: let us live in peace, and if we cannot agree on anything or everything, let us all agree on one thing: THERE IS NO FINAL, ABSOLUTE, WRITTEN AUTHORITY OF GOD ANYWHERE ON THIS EARTH.

This is the creed of the Alexandrian Cult.
  #24  
Old 04-13-2009, 03:47 PM
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George George is offline
 
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Default Re: "Alexandrian Texts"

Aloha brother Freoheaven,

I praise God for your testimony brother, but I am just an ordinary man, who loves God's word, and will do my utmost to defend it.

Please: Call me brother (because ALL of God's children are brother's and sister's in Christ) or just George.

I have been reading and appreciating your Posts on the Forum brother, and since I have been married to a Filipina for over 48 years now, I have a soft spot in my heart for the Filipino people.

I pray God will continue to bless and use you for His glory until He returns.
  #25  
Old 04-13-2009, 03:58 PM
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Fredoheaven Fredoheaven is offline
 
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Salamat at pagpalain ka ng Diyos (Thank you and God bless you )Bro. George in your defence of the Word of God.

Jude 1:25 To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.

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  #26  
Old 04-13-2009, 04:16 PM
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Default Re: "Alexandrian Texts"

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Originally Posted by Fredoheaven View Post
Salamat at pagpalain ka ng Diyos (Thank you and God bless you )Bro. George in your defence of the Word of God.

Jude 1:25 To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.

www.fredsites.weebly.com
Aloha brother Fred,

My wife was born on the Island of Kauai, Hawaii and can speak Ilocano. I showed her your Post and she thinks it must be in "Tagalog", which her mom and dad (who were born in Ilocos Norte and came to Hawaii in the 1930's), could both speak and read, but sad to say she cannot.

As for me - I can only speak and read and write in English; which, sadly, is true of most Americans.

We have become good friends with brother Sammy Tabuena (who is getting married in May and will be moving to Brgy. Trapiche, Oton, Iloilo), and with brother Chette Nichols who lives just outside of Puerto Princessa, Palawan. perhaps some day the Lord will make a way where you all could meet and fellowship. If not, this Forum is the next best thing.

Psalms 33:4 For the word of the LORD is right; and all his works are done in truth.
  #27  
Old 04-13-2009, 05:05 PM
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Fredoheaven Fredoheaven is offline
 
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Originally Posted by George View Post
Aloha brother Fred,

My wife was born on the Island of Kauai, Hawaii and can speak Ilocano. I showed her your Post and she thinks it must be in "Tagalog", which her mom and dad (who were born in Ilocos Norte and came to Hawaii in the 1930's), could both speak and read, but sad to say she cannot.

As for me - I can only speak and read and write in English; which, sadly, is true of most Americans.

We have become good friends with brother Sammy Tabuena (who is getting married in May and will be moving to Brgy. Trapiche, Oton, Iloilo), and with brother Chette Nichols who lives just outside of Puerto Princessa, Palawan. perhaps some day the Lord will make a way where you all could meet and fellowship. If not, this Forum is the next best thing.

Psalms 33:4 For the word of the LORD is right; and all his works are done in truth.
Yah, hope someday we will... "Naimbag nga aldaw" (Good day) to you and your wife. I'm a pure Pangalatok, a local dialect but my wife is an Ilokana.



Until then
  #28  
Old 04-13-2009, 10:17 PM
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Originally Posted by CKG View Post
I thought Eusebius was assigned the task.

Origen (A.D. 184-254). Constantine didn't became emperor of Rome until 312 A.D
I stand corrected, I may have my heretics mixed up.

Grace and peace

Tony
  #29  
Old 04-13-2009, 10:48 PM
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Tony, I was involved in a lengthy debate with Barry (FSSL) on FFF regarding Origen. I had believed some erroneous information at the beginning. Through a fair amount of research I was able to get a better picture of Origen's involvement with the texts. I am not an expert by any means, but I would suggest that you do some independent research before responding to others about Origen. A lot of what you have attached to Origen is actually about Eusebius, and much of what is known about Origen is based on Eusebius' writings, himself not being a model of true Biblical doctrine by any stretch.

One reference that I am currently reading is a very lengthy historical paper by Dr. Fredrick Nolan, from the mid-nineteenth century. I would let you know ahead of time that Dr. Nolan writes on a very sophisticated level. Barry threw in the towel without making it very far, because of Dr. Nolan's "convoluted" and "confusing" writing, in Barry's opinion, of course. Dr. Nolan's writings are difficult to say the least, but it is possible to follow his line of argument. The greatest flaw that I find with the essay is that there are no references given by him for follow-up examination.
I stand corrected on any erroneous information Tim. I'm rusty on my manuscript evidence, not having any reference works, which is why I approach it from, to me, the correct Scriptural standpoint. That is not rebuke to those who wish to discuss the manuscript evidence my friend. I don't really have time for FFF and would prefer to concentrate on any online work being confined to this forum. I entered into several of those years-long debates with little to no effect.

I have three of my own spears, so to speak. One is Romans 10:17 and inspiration. If there are no words given by God today by inspiration, then there is no salvation. The second is the "...word of God is in ALL versions" but not inspired. Why God preserves uninspired words is beyond me. The third is why there are 45 Alexandrian manuscripts, and not thousands, and why did they not compete with the Majority text;if the Alexandrian is the correct text, then why is there no evidence of it being as widespread as the Majority? The Islamic invasions of the West is no excuse, the Islamic invasions of the West caused the Majority text manuscripts to grow, if anything. That's common sense. It's common sense also to see that the Alexandrian text was rejected as corrupt.

I am going to correct any errors of mine on FFF, I don;t have time right now to play over there. The best thing that has happened to me this year was the gift of Swordsearcher, there are too many little "nuggets" from the Scriptures popping up than I have time to mine right now.

I can forgive 2000 of my books rotting in a dump right now because of a corrupt local and state government, I won't forget it. I hope if I am alive to see the Calling Out, it's as a citizen of Mexico.

If I can assist you in any way, do not hesitate to ask. I'm going to do what I was called to do and those with no inspired Scriptures know better and are going to have to fend for themselves.

Grace and peace brother

Tony
  #30  
Old 04-13-2009, 10:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Samuel View Post
The two mainstays of the Alexanderian text the Sinaiticus and Vaticanus, do not even agree with each other. The Sinaiticus was found in a trash dump, at a catholic monastery at the foot of Mt. Sinai in 1844. The other in the Vatican vaults at the time of Erasmus, he was offered them but refused. Due to the apparent corruption.

There are hundreds of strike outs, eliminations of whole verses, and rewrites. Neither copy has the whole Bible.

Wescott and Hort used these two codex to make their Greek New Testament, which is even more corrupt than the original text. Which is the backbone of all the Modern Versions of the Bible. Even the NKJV, which does not follow the TR faithfully, regardless of advertisement that it does.
Brother Samuel, I believe the monastery of St. Catherine was an Eastern Orthodox institution.

Grace and peace

Tony
 

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