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  #141  
Old 03-25-2009, 07:32 PM
Winman Winman is offline
 
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Chette

Now, you are accusing me of dishonesty. When did I ever say God had to mention everything in his creation account? That doesn't mean we can't draw conclusions from other verses.

We know from numerous verses that Satan and the angels exist and are in Heaven.

Job 1:6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them. 7 And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.

So, here we know Satan and the angels are in Heaven at times. And we know Satan is on Earth at times.

That is not silence, that is scripture.

But where does any scripture say that there was this period of time between Gen 1:1 and 1:2 where there was no time, or a different concept or measure of time we know today?

And it is not a stretch for me to believe Satan fell after the sixth day. We know that Heaven and all that is in Heaven was created in six days (Exo 20:11). We know God saw everything (that word seems to elude you) he made in the six days and said it was very good in Gen 1:31 and that was the sixth day.

I am not arguing from silence. I have scripture to support my view. It makes sense and does not contradict any other verses.

But your theory contradicts Exo 20:11. You say there was a period of time between Gen:1 and Gen 1:2. This would make the creation longer than six days. You make up some goofy theory that time was different or didn't exist without a single scripture to support it.

You are making stuff up. I cannot fathom how you cannot see this. And you have the gall to accuse me of dishonesty?
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  #142  
Old 03-25-2009, 08:14 PM
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chette777 chette777 is offline
 
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let me clarify.

I started this thread for those like minded men who believe in a non evolutionary gap theory to express their views.

We have heard all the arguments. many are pointed that we misuse the scriptures but to those who make that charge do the same with the same scriptures.

Please this post if for those who believe in a non evolutionary Gap theory it was not created to be a place of debate. there are other threads for that. we are gathering information and scriptures and formulating our view using scriptures that Hovind, Morris and others use to support their view. so obvious the verses can be used either way and still not be in conflict with the rest of Scriptures.

so please, WINMAN, start another post to argue. I want to hear from those who believe in a gap that is not evolutionary and who are interested in sharing their thoughts on that issue. I am sick of defending my thoughts on an area of scriptures that are not in conflict with my faith or the word of God.

My flesh is fed up with arguing with Winman and the others. I want to hear from those of like minds, thank you very much.

This thread has become over run with those agaist a Gap and that is not why I started it. so lets respect the thread and keep to the issue at hand a NON Evolutionary Gap Theory. if you don't agree FANTASTIC and so what! I want to hear form those who do agree and get some information on this not debate a bunch of head strong Hovindites, Moorisites or Dehaanites.

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  #143  
Old 04-30-2009, 12:45 AM
KingSolomon1611 KingSolomon1611 is offline
 
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Wow. I went through 15 pages of the non-evolutionary gap discussion and can't recall anyone pointing out (I hope I didn't overlook it if it has already been posted), in my opinion, one of the strongest indicators of the gap. The indicators are the similitudes of Adam and Noah.

First I'd like to note that God told Adam to RE-plenish the earth. So that must mean that it was previously plenished(this would open the door for the gap theory). If I told someone re-paint my house they must have previously painted it. If I told my daughter to reclean her room that would mean she has already cleaned it.

God told Noah

Genesis 9:1 And God blessed Noah and his sons, and said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth.

God told him to REplenishthe earth because he just wiped it out with a flood...of water.

God gave Adam the same commission he did to Noah after a flood

Genesis 1:28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

Did you notice God didn't mention making waters in Genesis Chapter 1? Just like he didn't mention making the angels aka Sons of God who were shouting for joy when God was making the earth Job 38:1-7.

In scripture Noah only has three children mentioned by name: Shem, Ham and Japheth.

In scripture Adam only has three children mentioned by name: Cain, Able and Seth.

Adam had a son who was cursed: Cain Genesis 4:11

Noah had a son who was connected to a curse: Ham Genesis 9:25

Adam was naked when he sinned. Genesis 3:7

Noah was naked when he sinned. Genesis 9:21

By the way I believe the same fruit was involved in both sins and it was a grape. Noah was drunk with wine (from grapes) and Adam ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil which I believe was a grape tree. Follow the posted link for further details.
http://www.kjv1611.org.uk/Forbidden%20fruit.htm

Then if you believe Adam's wife had sex with the Serpent to get Cain which was from that wicked one...

Somehow or another the giants were on the earth after Noah's flood. Maybe one of the ladies on the ark was pregnant with a satanic seed...maybe Noah's wife?
  #144  
Old 04-30-2009, 03:35 AM
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chette777 chette777 is offline
 
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thanks King,

we do know of the similarities but it is not solid Biblical proof. but throughout scripture as we study it out Here a little there a little, line upon line we can see it is Biblical.

the problem people will argue this word means that or some other argument.

I and some friends are still putting the whole study together and there are hints in Genesis, Job, Psalm, Proverbs, Isa, Ezekiel and other books that all have little bits to say. Like the "earth and all it's inhabitants thereof are dissolved", and "all the foundations of the earth are out of course",and again "Behold, the LORD maketh the earth empty, and maketh it waste, and turneth it upside down, and scattereth abroad the inhabitants thereof". all are little hints of something more than Noah's flood could ever be.

Isa 24 gives us that eye opener. You will notice nobody was scattered in Noah's flood. but the Devil and his angels were scattered throughout the firmament. and when was that done? on day 7, 8 or 1,256? the earth has never been made empty to date and this is not a prophecy but a remark of a past event. so the only place that fits is a pre 6 day work of God event which has a Gap in Biblical recording between Gen1:1 and 1:2.

Thanks for the support material you submitted on the thread.

Last edited by chette777; 04-30-2009 at 03:43 AM.
  #145  
Old 05-01-2009, 06:26 AM
Mind and Body Mind and Body is offline
 
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This is an interesting link on gap theory.
  #146  
Old 05-02-2009, 06:12 PM
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chette777 chette777 is offline
 
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M&B,

I read and downloaded the article from the link you posted.

But there are a lot of areas I have disagreement with.

interesting enough it starts off with the premise that the Gap is a theory instead of Biblical, and that the Gap theory is a form of theistic evolution creationism.

It is great as it gives us clearer questions to answer to show that just because we don't understand the time measurement of "From Everlasting" or "Eternity Past" does not mean we agree with the ideology of theistic evolution and long ages.

one should notice right away from Genesis one verse three a few things. The earth is already created before verse three. That verse three is not a amplification of verse one because nowhere from verse three on does it speak of the creation of the Earth as a "planet" and the Heaven the "Abode of God" also known as the third heaven.

it was in verse two where the earth is found without form and void. Jer4:23 being the only cross reference to get a logical English meaning for those words. there even darkness is associated with this desolation.

Verses 3-5 show the first separation (a division) of Day and Night. each is 12hours and together they total 24 hours. and the evening and the morning was the FIRST day. up until this there were no 24 hour days. the rest of the chapter and chapter two establish a complete week cycle that never before existed because 24 hour days did exist before. from Gen 1:3 forward we have our Biblical history past.

Thanks for the link great info
  #147  
Old 05-03-2009, 10:02 PM
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chette777 chette777 is offline
 
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Too all,

I nor any of my associates hold to the Gap as described in the above link supplied by Mind and Body in post #145. as a matter of fact the Gap they refute in that article is that of Geologist not the Biblical Gap that I and my friends who support the gap in scriptures hold too.

please again reread the first few posts, We do not hold to theistic evolution, nor AGE/day ideology. We do not believe any existence of pre-adamic man and other creatures God did not make Known in the Bible i.e. angles, Cherubs, Cherubim's, Seraphim's, arch-angles, Lucifer, Michael, Gabriel etc.

the Bible is clear the earth is created to be forever. It was created in everlasting and it will be unto everlasting. and even in Revelation the old is destroyed and a new one appears and this outside of the 24/7TQ.

We do not hold that there were necessarily long periods of time. We admit there is no way to understand from Everlasting as this time measurement is outside our current understanding it is only hinted at as being unknowable by the Psalmist and Peter.

We hold that OUR current time calculating method was created or established in Gen1:3-5 and that it is two part division of day and Night both being roughly 12 hours each and completing a 24 hour cycle of a single day, the end of such being the first DAY. not one of millions of years before the 24/7 of Gen1:3.

the seven day week being established by God. the Month was later calculated into the equation when God created the Sun Moon and stars for times and seasons. with that the establishment of months and years were made possible. so here in we deny any existence of sun moon and stars previous to Gen 1:14.

We do not find the Bible to be in error nor do we try and change the Bible but simply take it at face value. we do not find the Genesis to be corrupt or misinterpreted and the Gap is because the information between Gen 1:1 (proverbs 8:22-24) and Gen 1:2 is left out because God chose to do so when inspiring the scriptures. But God has left us plenty of scriptures for those who would know to find.

Please remember there are at least five different understanding of the space or gap between Gen1:1 and Gen1:2 apart from the one we hold. this includes the no gap theory of the current creationist groups like Hovind's and Morris's just to name 2, and there are at least three of those like Hovind's that hold different views on creationism young earth.
  #148  
Old 05-03-2009, 10:39 PM
Bro. Parrish
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingSolomon1611 View Post
Then if you believe Adam's wife had sex with the Serpent to get Cain which was from that wicked one...

Somehow or another the giants were on the earth after Noah's flood. Maybe one of the ladies on the ark was pregnant with a satanic seed...maybe Noah's wife?
What do you mean "if you believe?" ...is that what YOU believe?
Is this view common among Gappers, that Eve and Noah's wife actually had sex with Satan? I'm just curious, the Gap Theory is not really a big deal to me either way, although it seems to me that some people get a little obsessed over it.

Last edited by Bro. Parrish; 05-03-2009 at 10:47 PM.
  #149  
Old 05-04-2009, 03:44 AM
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geologist geologist is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bro. Parrish View Post
What do you mean "if you believe?" ...is that what YOU believe?
Is this view common among Gappers, that Eve and Noah's wife actually had sex with Satan? I'm just curious, the Gap Theory is not really a big deal to me either way, although it seems to me that some people get a little obsessed over it.
That is the first time this "gapper" has heard any such thing about Noah's wife. Such a thing is not even suggested in the Bible.

Last edited by geologist; 05-04-2009 at 03:53 AM.
  #150  
Old 05-04-2009, 03:52 AM
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chette777 chette777 is offline
 
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I nor any who believe in the Gap view I hold, don't believe Satan and Eve had sex.

Geo and my view of the Gap is quite different so you can't put us int he same Gap camp.
 

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