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Old 06-25-2009, 02:44 PM
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Fredoheaven Fredoheaven is offline
 
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Default Are we to hate for the sake of Christ?

Luke 14:26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.

So what can you say about this verse? I am figuring what this verse means. Do I need to hate everybody for the sake of Christ? In the other thread, someone suggested that I need not twist English. I know you Englishpeople/brethren alike, would you please tell me if hate/hatred needed to grow me spiritually?
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Old 06-25-2009, 03:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Fredoheaven View Post
Luke 14:26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.

So what can you say about this verse? I am figuring what this verse means. Do I need to hate everybody for the sake of Christ? In the other thread, someone suggested that I need not twist English. I know you Englishpeople/brethren alike, would you please tell me if hate/hatred needed to grow me spiritually?


I believe that as the commandment is to "honor thy father and thy mother," this translation is in error. It is better phrased in.....
Matthew 10:37 He that loveth father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me.
We are to love and honor our family but....He must come first. We may well be required to leave our family for His sake. Is that physically or emotionally or both? If your family goes in a direction you know is wrong you cannot follow.
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Old 06-25-2009, 06:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Fredoheaven View Post
Luke 14:26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.

So what can you say about this verse? I am figuring what this verse means. Do I need to hate everybody for the sake of Christ? In the other thread, someone suggested that I need not twist English. I know you Englishpeople/brethren alike, would you please tell me if hate/hatred needed to grow me spiritually?
Of course not. Love is the clearest evidence of a changed heart and mark of true discipleship, brother.

John 13:34-35 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

This is the APPLICATION we can make to ourselves. By comparing scripture with scripture we know for an absolute fact that hating your father, mother, wife, children, brethren, sister, and yes, even yourself is not the desire of Christ.

But there is a very clear and strong message to all who desire to love and follow Christ. Our devotion and love for the Lord Jesus Christ should be so great and superior that compared to all others and even to our self it would be hatred. The point is that Jesus Christ is preeminent in all things and He should be loved first and last. The interesting thing is that when we love Jesus Christ with our whole heart we keep his commands...like love one another as He has loved us.

Luke 14:26-27 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple. And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple.
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Old 06-25-2009, 07:54 PM
Bro. Parrish
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Fredoheaven that is an excellent question.

I think Forrest is correct,
it is a comparative statement and I like the way he phrased it...

"Our devotion and love for the Lord Jesus Christ should be so great and superior that compared to all others and even to our self it would be hatred."

I would have to disagree with Whirlwind, I do not see the word HATE as an ERROR, as I do not think we have errors in our inerrant Bible. So that means I have to adjust my thinking to the Word of God and accept is exactly as it is written. I think if a man chooses to truly follow Christ in discipleship, that man must reach a moment when his family, his father, his mother, his friends all become less than Christ. This is not an easy thing to do, but it allows our entire focus to be on Christ and at that moment Jesus becomes EVERYTHING. The entire world becomes NOTHING, least of all a friend.

This is a hard line to draw, but James challenges the sinners in his day by asking them...

"Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the ENEMY OF GOD."- James 4:4

Let's also remember that not all families and peer groups are supportive of Christianity. Many times young Christians will be openly attacked by family members and friends, who attempt to drag them back into the world and the patterns of flesh they came from. This can take many forms. For example, it could be an older brother, or perhaps a sister in law who is trying to force the new believer to smoke cigarettes and drink alchohol like the "old days." For a young woman, it could be an old boyfriend or lover who is trying to keep her out of church or Bible study for his own selfish reasons. It could be a family member who is wrapped up in the stench of Islam or maybe a cult like the Mormons or JW's, and hates the idea of their child taking a different path of doctrine.

But at that moment the disciple of Christ has to make a decision;
CHRIST OR OTHERS. This does not mean we are not to honor our parents, and it doesn't mean we are to seek trouble. But sooner or later we will have to make a decision to allow Christ to become the pinnacle in our life. At that moment your decision to stand for Christ can split your family wide open and CHALLENGE ANY RELATIONSHIP YOU HAVE ON EARTH. This can result in bad feelings, and I have seen men throwing furniture around, mothers screaming at sons, and sisters screaming about the new "Jesus freak." In many cases this trouble does not last, and the Christian is eventually accepted along with the new lifestyle adjustments, but it can get rough in the beginning. That's why Jesus said...

"Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law." - Matt. 10:34-35
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Old 06-25-2009, 08:59 PM
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chette777 chette777 is offline
 
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Whirly's quote: I believe that as the commandment is to "honor thy father and thy mother," this translation is in error. It is better phrased in...

are you denying the inerrancy or the KJV Bible?

You, like the deceived Eve have just changed the Word of God

If so why are you on this site. We all believe the KJV Bible has no errors
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Old 06-25-2009, 09:30 PM
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I think the meaning of "hate" in this context is to love less than or have less esteem for relative to something else.

Luke 16:13 No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

Hebrews 12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

1 Thessalonians 5:20 Despise not prophesyings.

Alternately,

Matthew 6:21 For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.
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Old 06-25-2009, 09:32 PM
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Webster's 1828 Dictionary [A-J]
hate
HATE, v.t. L. odi, for hodi.

1. To dislike greatly; to have a great aversion to. It expresses less than abhor, detest, and abominate, unless pronounced with a peculiar emphasis.

How long will fools hate knowledge? Prov.1.

Blessed are ye when men shall hate you. Luke 6.

The Roman tyrant was contented to be hated, if he was but feared.

2. In Scripture, it signifies to love less.

If any man come to me, and hate not father and mother, &c. Luke 14.

He that spareth the rod, hateth his son. Prov. 13.

HATE, n. Great dislike or aversion; hatred.
  #8  
Old 06-25-2009, 10:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fredoheaven View Post
Luke 14:26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.

So what can you say about this verse? I am figuring what this verse means. Do I need to hate everybody for the sake of Christ? In the other thread, someone suggested that I need not twist English. I know you Englishpeople/brethren alike, would you please tell me if hate/hatred needed to grow me spiritually?
Brother, no doubt you are offended at me for telling you that you can't retranslate Acts 2:38 to fit a denominational doctrinal error, but as can be spiritually discerned from this passage in Luke 14, friendship, or sound doctrine?

Ro 15:8 Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:
Ro 15:16 That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost.

Note the past tense(Time past) of verse 8, and the present tense (But now)of verse 16, and also the last passage of verse 8(Ages to come), the confirmation of the promises given to the Jewish fathers, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. These promises are yet future, as national Israel has not accepted Christ and won;t until Christ Himself personally establishes His Kingship of Israel at the beginning of the Millenium. Luke 14 is a chapter filled with works, and doctrinally applied to OT Jews in Israel under the Law and on the verge of the Tribulation of Joel 2, then restoration of Israel, and the Second Coming of Christ. There is no mention of the Body of Christ anywhere in Luke, Matthew, Mark, or John for that matter. This is all pre-crucifixion doctrine to Israel. I'm in no way part or parcel of Israel, I am a spiritual son of Abraham, I am an adopted son of God. In the gospel of Christ, the preaching of the cross, Christ crucified, salvation by grace through faith of I Cor. 15, Eph 2 and 3, I can find nowhere in Christ's message to me through Paul where I am commanded to hate anybody. In the Age of grace it's the Christian who is hated. It's the Christian who leaves Mormonism, Catholicism, the JWs, the Church of Christ, the Worldwide Church Of God, Christian Science, or any cult you want to name, and has to endure being shunned by his or her own family, not the other way around. After I debated two COC "elders" each and every one of my Dad's family threw me away like a live hand grenade. Those in my mother's family who make a claim to be Christian moan the fact I only have "part" of the gospel and not this mythical "full" gospel I can't find anywhere.

Rejoice brother Fred, you don;t have to "hate" anybody, you are only asked to be a soldier for Christ, an ambassador for Christ, a minister of the reconciliation to wit that God was in Christ reconciling the world unto Himself, not remitting their sins unto them, nor ours to us.

Isn't the grace of God a wonderful thing brother?

Grace and peace to you

Tony

Last edited by tonybones2112; 06-25-2009 at 10:17 PM. Reason: typo
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Old 06-25-2009, 10:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whirlwind View Post
I believe that as the commandment is to "honor thy father and thy mother," this translation is in error. It is better phrased in.....
Matthew 10:37 He that loveth father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me.
We are to love and honor our family but....He must come first. We may well be required to leave our family for His sake. Is that physically or emotionally or both? If your family goes in a direction you know is wrong you cannot follow.
My friend, I think perhaps you might be in the wrong forum, for one thing, you are not qualified to correct the Scriptures based on your own private interpretations.

Jud 21:25 In those days there was no king in Israel: every man did that which was right in his own eyes..

Grace and peace

Tony
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Old 06-26-2009, 06:18 AM
whirlwind
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Originally Posted by tonybones2112 View Post
My friend, I think perhaps you might be in the wrong forum, for one thing, you are not qualified to correct the Scriptures based on your own private interpretations.

Jud 21:25 In those days there was no king in Israel: every man did that which was right in his own eyes..

Grace and peace

Tony
I must agree....I am not qualified nor would I attempt to correct Scripture. For that reason I quoted another Scripture that gave the meaning to that same verse. I wasn't aware of any private interpretation being given. .
 

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