Doctrine Discussion about matters of the faith.

 
 
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  #1  
Old 10-27-2008, 03:45 PM
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stephanos stephanos is offline
 
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Default Paul Washer exposed!

I know some folks don't like brother Steve Anderson, but he is so right on this guy. Paul Washer has become a disease within the Church lately. He preaches Lordship Salvation, which I used to believe, and have repented of. Let us pray that this man does the same, and uses his passion and zeal for preaching the true Gospel of Jesus Christ!

www.youtube.com/watch?v=VD4l97xmWcw

Much Love in Christ Jesus,
Stephen
The King James Bible Page SwordSearcher Bible Software
  #2  
Old 10-27-2008, 04:13 PM
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Amen amen amen. Paul Washer caused me to doubt my salvation for ages, because I was constantly looking at myself and judging my holiness.

His "famous" sermon, the one that is "so shocking and biblical he was never invited back" has a lot of good points in it, and it is very convicting, and I believe God has used it for some good, but there is a lot of false doctrine/works based salvation in it. I have seen Arminians/Holiness defend that sermon as being totally biblical, claiming that washer teaches you can lose your salvation (he is a calvinist, so he doesn't teach that at all, at least not in his statement of faith).

It seems to me that a bunch of self righteous hypocrites of the southern baptist/new evangelical pursuasion have claimed washer for their own. He helps to make them seem holy and teaching the truth, compared to the majority of charasmatic churches in the states.

The things he says about "easy believism" are both good and bad. No, a prayer doesn't save you, but yes, if you ask Jesus to forgive you, believing He will, then He will. Washer's idea of salvation is begging God for it, like God has His free gift, but He is only offering it to people who beg for it and grovel and do some kind of penance.

I don't know what his work is like on the mission field. He may do a lot of good, but I know that I cannot promote him, because he is a calvinist, and I find that doctrine deplorable.
  #3  
Old 10-27-2008, 04:15 PM
JMWHALEN JMWHALEN is offline
 
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Forgiveness/Justification in this dispensation:

Believers in the gospel of Christ of 1 Cor. 15:1-4 have submitted themselves "unto the righteousness of God"(Romans 10:3).

We now have the righteousness of God, Romans 3:21-25, 4:5, secured through the death, burial, and resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ(1 Cor. 15:1-4)

The LORD God has justified us forever because He sees us "in Christ": Acts 13;43; Romans 3:24-28, 4:25, 5:1,9, 8:30; 1 Cor. 6:11; Galatians 2:16, 3:24; Titus 3:7. This is an immutable reckoning in the mind of God. Justification is that judicial act of God by which, on account of the Lord Jesus Christ, to whom I am united("in Christ") by faith, He declares me to be no longer exposed to the penalty of the righteous requirements of the law, but restored to divine favor. I have been declared righteous. Justfication is an act, not a process. Upon believing 1 Cor. 15:1-4, I was given a free gift(Romans 5:18)-a righteous standing before a Holy God. This gift, by definition, has nothing to do with what I have done or who I am. No amount of self-effort or good works could ever bring one to justification. I did not justify myself-it is God who justifies. This gift is unchanging. Once God declared me righteous on the merit of the eternal Son of God, the Lord jesus Christ, the sin question regarding me has been settled once for all.

Justification is more than forgiveness, since implicit in forgiveness is guilt and cancellation/removal of sin(negative), while justification is "not guilty" and the bestowing of the merit and standing of the Lord Jesus Christ(positive). Justification is not equivalent to being pardoned. A pardoned criminal is still a criminal. Justification removes the guilt. God thus not only forgets my sin, but forgets that I am a sinner-and all because He sees me "in Christ".

Because I am "in Christ Jesus", I have been "...made the righteousness of God in him..."(1 Corinthians 1:30, 2 Corinthians 5:21). I am "... found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith..."Phillippians 3:9:

All my sins(plural-1 Cor. 15:1-4) were forgiven at Calvary and the resurrection 3 days later:

"In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness(emphasis mine-past tense)of sins" Col. 1:14

"And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven(emphasis mine-past tense) you all trespasses" Col. 2:13

"Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave(emphasis mine-past tense)you, so also do ye." Col. 3:13

"In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness(emphasis mine-past tense) of sins, according to the riches of his grace" Eph. 1:7

"And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven(emphasis mine-past tense) you" Eph. 4:32.

In Romans 5:12 Paul is no longer dealing with sins(plural), but rather with the SOURCE, the principle of indwelling sin. Romans 5:12 is speaking of identification-our positional history. We were all identified positionally with the source of humanity-"in Adam". When Adam sinned and thereby positionally died to God, I died with him. When he became flesh, so did I in him. When he was judged I was also judged in him.

Unlike its product, sins(plural), sin COULD NOT BE FORGIVEN, for it would be sin still. A forgiven thief is still a thief! Hence, sin had to be condemned/judged in death:

"...God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for SIN(emphasis mine-not sins), condemned SIN(emphasis mine) in the flesh."(Romans 8:3).

Thus, my SINS were forgiven by the principle of SUBSTITUTION:
"...Christ died for our sins..."(1 Cor 15:3)/"...gave himself for our sins...." Gal. 1:4

But our SIN was condemned/judged by the principle of IDENTIFICATION-2 Cor. 5:21="...to be SIN(emphasis mine) for us..."


Again, sins(plural) can be forgiven, but sin(singular), cannot be forgiven-it must be judged. That is, the sin nature, who I was "in Adam"(1 Cor. 15:22), was not forgiven at Calvary. My then future sins were forgiven("Christ died for our sins"-plural-emphasis mine-1 Cor. 15:3), but I, as the Adamic "old man"(Romans 6:6, Eph. 4:22, Col.3:9), the source of those sins, was not forgiven. Sin must be judged/condemned, and it was at Calvary.. "For he(God the Father-emphasis mine) hath made him(the Son of God-emhasis mine) to be sin for us...."(2 Cor. 5"21)/"For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh..."(Romans 8:3)

Thus, while the Lamb of God was on the cross, God the Father laid amm my as-yet-uncommitted sins upon God the Son, and His death by blood for those sins freed me from the penalty. While the Lord Jesus Christ was on that same cross, God the Father identified(the meaning of the word "baptize") me, in my Adamic life of sin, with His Son, who was made to be that sin(2 Cor. 5:21). In Him, I died to sin. In my death unto sin in the Lord Jesus Christ's death, I was freed from all that I was in the "first man Adam"(1 Cor. 15:45), and was re-created in the "last Adam"(1 Cor. 15:45)-Romans 6:5, 2 Cor. 5:17, Eph. 2:10.

Thus, all my sins were forgiven via the principle of substitution, i.e., "...Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures...."(1 Cor. 15:3). But my sin was condemned/judged via the principle of identification, i.e., "For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin...."(2 Cor. 5:21). The Lord Jesus Christ did not die for sin, but for sins. Being made sin, our sin, He was judged, condemned, and crucified in our place.

Thus, the Lord Jesus Christ did not die for SIN, but for SINS. Being made sin, our sin, He was judged, condemned, and crucified. He, being the sinless one, died unto sin-out of the realm of sin-having paid the price in full. Thence He was free to rise from among the dead into "newness of life"-heavenly, glorified, "new creation life."

I, the natural man in condemned Adam, was not forgiven for who I am "in Adam"(WRONG BEING) at the cross. My then future SINS were forgiven, but I, as the Adamic "old man", the SOURCE of those SINS, was not forgiven. Sin must be judged-it was -Romans 8:3. While the Lamb of God was on the cross, God the Father laid ALL of my as-yet-uncommitted sins upon the Lord Jesus Christ , and His death for those sins freed me from their penalty. While the Lord Jesus Christ was on that same cross, God the Father IDENTIFIED me, in my Adamic life of sin, with His Son who was made to be that sin(2 Cor. 5:21). In Him, I died unto sin positionally. Again, I, the sinful one, was not forgiven for who I am "in Adam"-my sins were forgiven, but not the "old man", the SOURCE of those sins. I was not forgiven in order to start all over as a "first-Adam" person. No! "I was crucified with Christ"(Gal. 2:20, Romans 6:6)-I died unto sin in Him. In that death I was positionally separated from my Adamic life, the SOURCE of sin. The Lord Jesus Christ's death FOR me redeemed me from the penalty of my sins; my positional death WITH Him freed me from the condemned/judged Adamic life and its rulership.

Romans 6:6 sets forth doctrinally, and positionally, what happened to believers as IDENTIFIED with the Lord Jesus Christ in His death unto sin on the cross. I, the old Adamic man, was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be destroyed-condemned/judged in death-not forgiven. I, the sinful one, was judged in the death of the cross in order that I might be re-created in the risen life of the "last Adam." In my death unto sin in the Lord Jesus Christ's death, I was freed from all that I was in the first Adam, and I was re-created in the last Adam as He rose from the dead-Romans 6:5 "planted together"=IDENTIFIED(the meaning of baptism)/UNITED, 2 Cor. 5:17, Eph. 2:10 "created in Christ Jesus."

I refuse to ask the LORD God to forgive me for something He already took care of 2000 years ago-that is unbelief. When Christ died, I died. When He was buried, I was buried. When He rose from the dead, I rose from the dead, When He ascended, I ascended. Hence, the meaning of "baptized into Christ"-Gal. 3:27, Romans 6:3/"baptized into his death"-Romans 6:3=IDENTIFICATION. I have been judged already, all my sins I have committed, or will commit, have been forgiven, and I have been justified. No one can 'lay any charges' against me-"...It is God that justifieth"(Romans 8:33).

"Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: By whom also we have access(emphasis mine) by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God." Romans 1, 2

Peace means the war is over. I was an enemy(Romans 5:10 ), but I am no longer. Only enemies need reconcilliation. God is not angry with me any longer, and is not imputing my sins to my account(2 Cor. 5:19). And by His grace, I have not only reconciled, but justified. As hard as it is for The RCC to accept it, it is a FACT that when God looks at me, he does not see my sin, or my sins(sin, singular, was judged at Calvary, and all sins, plural, were forgiven by 1 Cor. 15:1-4-"my old man" was judged at the cross, all my sins are gone, never to be brought up again or charged to me again), nor my righteousness, he sees the righteousness of his son. So then, if God the Father has a problem with me, he would then have to have a problem with the Lord Jesus Christ-impossible!

Peace means the LORD God has NOTHING against me. This involves:

1. That God has fully judged sin, upon the Lord Jesus Christ, my substitute.
2. That God was so fully satisfied with Christ's sacrifice, that he will eternally remain so; he will never take up the judgment of my sin again="What sin"?
3. That God is therefore at rest about me forever, however poor my understanding of truth, and however weak my walk is. God is looking at the blood of Christ and his righteousness, not my sins. All the demanding claims of the Law were met by the work of the Lord Jesus Christ.

My peace is not as between 2 nations before at war; but as a king and rebellious, rotten, guilty subjects. My heart is at rest because God, against which all sin is directed, has been fully satisfied at the cross(propitiation). "Peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ" does not mean peace through what he is now doing, but through what he did do on the cross. All the majesty of God's holy and righteous throne was satisfied by the Lord Jesus Christ by his death, burial, and resurrection. And now, being raised from the dead, the Lord Jesus Christ is my peace. But is is his past work at Calvary, not his present work of intercession, that all is based upon; and this gives all believers a sense of peace which he made through his blood.

Re. " By whom also we have access", the word "also" sets this blessing forth as distinct from and additional to that of peace with God. Through the Lord Jesus Christ, in whom we have believed, we have been given to the JUSTIFIED(the basis of our access) access into a wonderful standing in divine favor, totally "...accepted in the beloved...."(Eph. 1:6). Being in Christ, we have the very favor, access, in which Christ stands and has.

Justice is getting what you deserve. Mercy is not getting what you deserve. Grace is getting something you do not deserve. THE FINALITY OF THE CROSS settled the sin issue-it was dealt with completely 2000 years ago, when JUSTICE, MERCY, AND GRACE. were all put on public display"-the meaning of "...set forth...." in Romans 3:25. God has already accomplished JUSTICE by judging His only Begotten Son in my stead, and thus I received 1. MERCY=not getting what I deserved because the Lord Jesus Christ took my judgment by taking my place="FOR"=the principle of substitution and identification, and 2.GRACE=getting something I don't deserve=the righteousness of God in Christ through the principle of imputation.

Again, the Holy Bible says that the Lord Jesus Christ died once for all sin and sins inclusively-all issues were settled, including THE BARRIER which prevented my communication with a holy LORD GOD=access. While "short accounts" for forgiveness was the method God used to deal with the sin issue in the past(including the sacrificial system of continuous confession and sacrifice, and including the time of "the gospels"), it is no longer in this dispensation. I am complete in Christ(Col. 2:10), and thus there can never be a "sin issue" or "fellowship" problem, lest God somehow is not satisfied with the work of his Son. Either God took care of all issues, or he did not. He did.

All my sins were deposited in hell 2000 years ago. The Lord God sees me as completely justified and righteous, and no charges can be held to my account-the court and jury met 2000 years ago, the payment for sin was made, sin(singular)was judged, and all sins(plural) were forgiven. These charges were dismissed 2000 years ago, not because of anything I did, or will do or not do in the future, but because of already was done on my behalf by this great and only Saviour of ours, the Lord Jesus Christ. Since I am "in Christ", the LORD God sees His Son and His righteousness. My standing with God does not depend on me asking for forgiveness, or repenting of sin(my "walk"-sanctification)- that is unbelief, asking the LORD God to do something he has already done, and making justification dependent on my faithfulness to service, instead of the faithfulness of the Saviour.

Nowhere in Paul's inspired writings did the Lord Jesus Christ instruct him to teach about incremental forgiveness, or that we are to go to the "forgiveness bank" and to make a withdrawal each time we sin. Instead, we are to believe that we are forgiven, and to thank God, out of gratitude, and not fear(which never motivates man to serve God, as demonstrated by Israel's experience and testimony in the OT) for his grace! Is the riches of God's grace magnified when we believe in his completed work, and Christ's all inclusive forgiveness, or when you ask God to forgive you over and over again, when he told us that we have already been forgiven? Is your forgiveness conditioned based upon how many times you ask or plead or "confess", or are we to believe it is a done deal? I suggest you not ask "how you feel"(human emotions are unreliable and deceitful), or what you have heard from "mainstream" Christianity, which mostly fails to "rightly divide the word of truth", to find the truth in this dispensation.

The Biblical order is SONSHIP(justification), then SERVICE(sanctification). Those who reverse this biblical order are putting the proverbial "horse before the cart", and are confusing service to our Father AS SONS with service TO BECOME SONS. Those who make statements such as "make Jesus Lord of your life", "turn your life over to Jesus, give your life to Jesus", despite the fact that the heart of the gospel is the Lord Jesus Christ GIVING HIS LIFE FOR US, and has nothing to do with us giving him anything, make this deadly error. The LORD God needs nothing from us(Acts 17:25, Job 35:7, Haggai 2:8) and is not, and will not, condition/make "giving our life to Him"(service) the basis for His acceptance of us. Again, The LORD God has accepted the Lord Jesus Christ's voluntary sacrificial offering of HIS LIFE, not ours, as proptiatory(satisfactory). All service is a priviledged responsibility given as a gift to those who have been declared adopted sons by faith in the finished and faithful work of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Holy means "sanctified"=set aside for God's purpose. But God only uses those instruments that are His sons, and "saints" describes those who are already justified=His="in Christ". And the LORD God would have us know this biblical order in Corithians-Paul calls the Corinthians, the most carnal, dirty, lustful group of believer SAINTS.

Consider the book of Galatians, which is a stern, severe, corrective, and solemn message-there is no word of commendation, praise or thanksgiving. Paul's "heart" is laid bare here as the letters are peppered with deep emotion and strong feeling. This is his "fighting epistle"-he is on a war path, with no tolerance for legalism! It is the declaration of freedom from all types of legalism. While Romans was from Paul's "head" with its lawyerly, systematic treatise on justification by faith, and faith alone, Galatians was from his heart. It is the boldest, strongest declaration and DEFENSE(as is this post) of the doctrine of justification by faith in and out of the scriptures, and, as such, is God's polemic on behalf of the most vital truth of the Christian truth against any attack. That is, not only is a sinner saved by grace through faith(not commitment), but the saved sinner lives by grace(sanctification=commitment=the Christian "walk"). But we must not confuse justification(the declaration of righteousness) with sanctification! Yes, we are saved from the penalty of sin(justification), the power of sin(sanctification), and the presense of sin(glorification), but these are not equivalent biblical doctrines, and people are perverting the gospel of Christ by putting the proverbial "horse before the cart", i. e., they are placing sanctification=commitment=give your life to Christ in the wrong biblical order-as a "prerequisite" to justification, or as the means to justification. No, No, No!! Interestingly enough, Paul had nothing but condemnation for the Galatians, and yet, for the Corinthians, as mentioned, the most carnal bunch of Christians, who were engaged in adultery, drunkeness, gluttony.....he had words of encouragement, and never questioned their justification, as witnessed by his continual reference to them as "in Christ", and as SAINTS. This should be an object lesson for us all, and should cause each of us to cry with joy and praise for the truly amazing grace bestowed upon e! ach one of us wherby we are made "...accepted in the beloved...."(Ephesians 1:6) by this great God of ours(Psalms 145:3). And this should be our motivation to "...walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called...."(Ephesians 4:1), "..walk worthy of the Lord unto all pleasing, being fruitful in every good work, and increasing in the knowledge of God...."(Colossians 1:10), "...walk worthy of God, who hath called you unto his kingdom and glory...."(1 Thessalonians 2:12), "..walk and to please God, so ye would abound more and more...."(1 Thessalonians 4:1),."...as children of light...."(Ephesians 5:8), which is our "....reasonable service...."(Romans 12:1) as sons.

No one would disagree with anyone who would say we should "live a holy life before God"(sanctification), BUT NOT AS A BASIS FOR OUR ACCEPTANCE by Him-not as our basis for JUSTIFICATION! We live a holy life because we are sons, because we are justified, because we are saved, NOT TO BE SONS, NOT TO BE JUSTIFIED, NOT TO BE SAVED.

No one has,or can, truly(and this is a subjective criteria)repent(ed) of all their sins", no one has, or can "surrender 100% to the Lordship of Jesus Christ"(and this is a subjective criteria), no one has "put away the things or our previous life and life style", no one has, or can, "live(d) for God 100%", for all have been pronounced "guilty"(Romans 3:19 ), and "...come short of the glory of God...."(Romans 3:23), in not only what we do, but what we do not do, and how we think. Sin is not just "wrong doing", it is "wrong being". Nor will the LORD God accept any offering these acts of service as a basis for justification, but will only accept the death by blood OFFERING of the Lord Jesus Christ's spotless life, NOT OURS, and his resurrection, as a basis for our justification as sons.

Phrases such as "giving one's life, heart("commitment") is not the proper object of faith.. Again, salvation has nothing to do with "giving" God anything! Salvation is not my gift to God. Rather, it is the issue of receiving a gift from God. The issue in salvation is not what we give to Him, but what He gives to us-eternal life. The issue is not giving your life to Christ-it is Christ giving up His life as an atoning sacrifice for you. Salvation has nothing to do with "giving up your life", "surrendering your life".........-It was the Lord Jesus Christ who gave up His life and made full surrender when he yielded His life at Calvary. Again, when a lost person is told to "surrender his life, give his life to Jesus, commit his life to Jesus.........", this wrongly presumes that a person has something worthy to give(whether that is time, money, service......), and confuses SERVICE with SALVATION. It requires a "commitment" to serve Christ "up front" before salvation, and it presents a work-based performance system as a basis for acceptance by God.

Phrases such as "Give your heart to Jesus" may sound very romantic, but we are not saved by "falling in love with Jesus"-we are saved by believing in the Lord Jesus Christ's finished work at Calvary and His resurrection 3 days later. Giving one's heart, life(commitment) is an activity of service to the Lord, and and, as such, service and dedication is something the LORD appeals to believers to do(Romans 12:1-2, for eg.). But this is service from those who have become his own. The biblical order is sonship, then service. Service, then sonship is a work-based performance system, as typified by the Roman Catholic Church, and "perverts the gospel of Christ"(Gal. 1:7). Statements such as " ...I believe salvation is a journey; it is not a moment in time" reflect this mindset and false doctrine. Sanctification is a journey, but justification is not. Justification is a "moment in time" declaration of righteousness based on the merits of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Practically every false doctrine is a result of "getting things out of order", as I mentioned previously. The divine order is justification, then change/sanctification, not change/sanctification and then salvation. Notice in Romans 5:6, God "JUSTIFIES THE UNGODLY(emphasis mine)"-no "fixing yourself up first", no "stop sinning first".......... Notice in Romans 5:8, "while we were yet SINNERS(emphasis mine), Christ died for us". Again, those who make statements such as "make Jesus Lord of your life", "turn your life over to Jesus, give your life to Jesus, commit your life to Jesus"(despite the fact that the heart of the gospel is the Lord Jesus Christ GIVING HIS LIFE FOR US, and has nothing to do with us giving him anything!) make this deadly error-confusing sancification with justification.

Many error by thinking that "stop sinning"=acts of commission "solves the sin issue". You could "stop sinning" all the rest of your life(which is a self righteous PRIDE that no one can do), and that would not allow you in the presence of our Holy God. Sin is not just wrong acts, it is "not doing what you are suppose to do", and it is "wrong thinking"-thus,"all have sinned and come short of the glory of God". The LORD God has pronounced all of us GUILTY, with no exceptions(read Romans again)-guilty of not only what we do, but guilty of falling short of his absolute standard, THE LORD JESUS CHRIST="who he wants us to beThe biblical requirement is not just forgiveness=a pardon for an offence, but JUSTIFICATION=a legal declaration of righteousness, and includes not just "stop doing what is wrong", but also DOING EVERYTHING THAT IS RIGHT in thought, word, and deed(had any evil thoughts today? I have). And this is "the righteousness of God in him"(2 Cor. 5:21), the "righteousness of God"(Romans 1:17), " righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe"(Romans 3:22), "And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith"(Philippians 3:9).

The divine operation works from within to without, the opposite of Satan's "modest operandi"(sic), which works from the outside of man to within. We need to preach the gospel of Christ, and not confuse the "fruits" of salvation, the effects of salvation, which is our "walk"/sanctification, with the CAUSE of salvation. Only the gospel of Christ is the"power of God unto salvation"(Romans 1:16)- and this is the power of God from the PENALTY of sin (justification), the power of sin(sanctification), and the presence of sin(glorification).

"But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness." Romans 4:5


In Christ and with Christ ,

John M. whalen
  #4  
Old 10-27-2008, 04:58 PM
JMWHALEN JMWHALEN is offline
 
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Repentance:

The term merely means to "change one's mind". The context determines what you are to change your mind about.

But it is not automatically "turning from sin", "admitting sinful behaviour"........or you are declaring that God is a sinner!:


Genesis 6:6
"And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart."

Genesis 6:7
"And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them."

Exodus 32:14
"And the LORD repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people".

Numbers 23:19
"God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?"

Deuteronomy 32:36
"For the LORD shall judge his people, and repent himself for his servants, when he seeth that their power is gone, and there is none shut up, or left."

Judges 2:18
"And when the LORD raised them up judges, then the LORD was with the judge, and delivered them out of the hand of their enemies all the days of the judge: for it repented the LORD because of their groanings by reason of them that oppressed them and vexed them".

1 Samuel 15:11
"It repenteth me that I have set up Saul to be king: for he is turned back from following me, and hath not performed my commandments. And it grieved Samuel; and he cried unto the LORD all night."

1 Samuel 15:29
"And also the Strength of Israel will not lie nor repent: for he is not a man, that he should repent."

1 Samuel 15:35
"And Samuel came no more to see Saul until the day of his death: nevertheless Samuel mourned for Saul: and the LORD repented that he had made Saul king over Israel."

2 Samuel 24:16
"And when the angel stretched out his hand upon Jerusalem to destroy it, the LORD repented him of the evil, and said to the angel that destroyed the people, It is enough: stay now thine hand. And the angel of the LORD was by the threshingplace of Araunah the Jebusite."

1 Chronicles 21:15
"And God sent an angel unto Jerusalem to destroy it: and as he was destr! oying, t he LORD beheld, and he repented him of the evil, and said to the angel that destroyed, It is enough, stay now thine hand. And the angel of the LORD stood by the threshingfloor of Ornan the Jebusite."

Psalm 90:13
"Return, O LORD, how long? and let it repent thee concerning thy servants".

Psalm 106:45
"And he remembered for them his covenant, and repented according to the multitude of his mercies".

Psalm 110:4
"The LORD hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek."

Psalm 135:14
"For the LORD will judge his people, and he will repent himself concerning his servants."

Jeremiah 4:28
"For this shall the earth mourn, and the heavens above be black; because I have spoken it, I have purposed it, and will not repent, neither will I turn back from it."

Jeremiah 18:10
"If it do evil in my sight, that it obey not my voice, then I will repent of the good, wherewith I said I would benefit them."

Jeremiah 20:16
"And let that man be as the cities which the LORD overthrew, and repented not: and let him hear the cry in the morning, and the shouting at noontide;"

Jeremiah 26:3
"If so be they will hearken, and turn every man from his evil way, that I may repent me of the evil, which I purpose to do unto them because of the evil of their doings."

Jeremiah 26:13
"Therefore now amend your ways and your doings, and obey the voice of the LORD your God; and the LORD will repent him of the evil that he hath pronounced against you."

Jeremiah 26:19
"Did Hezekiah king of Judah and all Judah put him at all to death? did he not fear the LORD, and besought the LORD, and the LORD repented him of the evil which he had pronounced against them? Thus might we procure great evil against our souls."

Jeremiah 42:10
"If ye will still abide in this land, then will I build you, and not pull you down, and I will plant you, and not pluck you up: for I repent me of the evil that I have done unto y! ou."

Ezekiel 24:14
"I the LORD have spoken it: it shall come to pass, and I will do it; I will not go back, neither will I spare, neither will I repent; according to thy ways, and according to thy doings, shall they judge thee, saith the Lord GOD."

Hosea 11:8
"How shall I give thee up, Ephraim? how shall I deliver thee, Israel? how shall I make thee as Admah? how shall I set thee as Zeboim? mine heart is turned within me, my repentings are kindled together."

Hosea 13:14
"I will ransom them from the power of the grave; I will redeem them from death: O death, I will be thy plagues; O grave, I will be thy destruction: repentance shall be hid from mine eyes."

Joel 2:13
"And rend your heart, and not your garments, and turn unto the LORD your God: for he is gracious and merciful, slow to anger, and of great kindness, and repenteth him of the evil."

Amos 7:3
"The LORD repented for this: It shall not be, saith the LORD."

Amos 7:6
"The LORD repented for this: This also shall not be, saith the Lord GOD."

Jonah 3:9
"Who can tell if God will turn and repent, and turn away from his fierce anger, that we perish not?"

Jonah 3:10
"And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not."

Jonah 4:2
"And he prayed unto the LORD, and said, I pray thee, O LORD, was not this my saying, when I was yet in my country? Therefore I fled before unto Tarshish: for I knew that thou art a gracious God, and merciful, slow to anger, and of great kindness, and repentest thee of the evil."

Zech 8:14
"For thus saith the LORD of hosts; As I thought to punish you, when your fathers provoked me to wrath, saith the LORD of hosts, and I repented not:"

The good news is not stop sinning-that is not the gospel of Christ of 1 Cor. 15:1-4, for that is truly bad news,for no one can stop sinning, or turn from all their sins, and, more importantly, justification is not dependent on this. . Stop sinning is sanctification, our "walk" of service as sons not justification. People are making the condition of justification to be stop sinning-No! The simple requirement is BELIEF-this is simple, and this is the only requirement. We must not make the requirement for justification conditioned on something we do=that is a work. "Turning from sin", "stop sinning" are works.


I may sound like "a broken record", but we all need to "call" anyone that attempts to pervert the gospel of Christ with another gospel, which is NOT GOOD NEWS(Galatians Chapter 1), but is under a curse. That is,any attempts to add a works-based performance system as a requirement for justification, and that includes the erroneous notion that "repent", in the context of salvation, means "to turn from your sins", should be sternly rebuked.. This is "serious business" folks-souls are at stake. Justification is a one time event, and repentance, as it pertains to justification, and salvation from the penalty of sin(notice I did not say repentance as it pertains to salvation from the power of sin, which is SANCTIFICATION), is also a one time event.

We should not stand idly by and allow someone to make the typical "Lordship Salvation" argument, which is also under a curse, by confusing SERVICE=SANCTIFICATION with salvation. The biblical order is sonship, then service, and not vica versa. We must define this word as the Holy Bible does, and this is not just semantics. And the Holy Bible defines repent simply as "to change one's mind or heart"-it is that simple. The context of the subject matter determines what one must "change your mind" about.

How do we know that repent means "change of mind"? As shown, because the LORD God repented. No believer would claim that the LORD God can sin.

But repentance is never defined as "turning from your sins", "a work that requires something on our part","getting sin out of your life", "stop continually and intentionally keep doing the same thing" "changing your actions", as it pertains to justification(declaration of righteousness) of the sinner, and is never made a prerequisite, an "up front charge" in any of the presentation of the "gospel of Christ", the "gospel of the grace of God", as presented by the apostle Paul in Romans through Philemon, and as outlined in 1 Corinthians 15:1-5-never. Repent, as it refers to man and his acceptance by a Holy God with regards to justification, refers to man changing his mind about himself and his ability to save himself through a performance based system, i.e., "The Law". It is a "mental about face", a realization of man's own sinfulness(conviction), an abhorrence of oneself(Isaiah's "...Woe is me! for I am undone; because I am a man of unclean lips...." -6:5), an "I cannot save myself-only the LORD God can save me" mindset.

As I have said many times, the Biblical order is SONSHIP(justification), then SERVICE(sanctification). Those who reverse this biblical order are putting the proverbial "horse before the cart", and are confusing service to our Father as sons with service to become sons. Those who make statements such as "make Jesus Lord of your life", "turn your life over to Jesus, give your life to Jesus"(despite the fact that the heart of the gospel is the Lord Jesus Christ GIVING HIS LIFE FOR US, and has nothing to do with us giving him anything!), make this deadly error.


I ask everyone to ask themselves if they have "stopped sinning", "turned from all their sins". I have not, but I thank the LORD that my salvation is not, and cannot be, dependent on what I do, but was already done 2000 years ago by the Lord Jesus Christ, by his faith, and all the LORD God asks is that I believe it! News, by definition, is something that has already happened!

Now, everyone who takes this stand, be ready for "the afflictions of the gospel"(2 Tim. 1:8).

In and with Christ,

John M. Whalen

PS: Who ever heard of "hiring your boss?"=Lordship Salvation
The Lord Jesus Christ is Lord, in the sense here of master, owner, controller, "boss", not because we "make" him such, but because God the Father gave him this position:

"Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God(my emphasis) hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ(my emphasis)." Acts 2:36

Whether we believe it or not, does not change this fact.
  #5  
Old 10-27-2008, 05:08 PM
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stephanos stephanos is offline
 
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JMWHALEN, those are both very good posts. Are those from a book that I might be able to read myself, or did you write those out just now?

Much Love in Christ,
Stephen
  #6  
Old 10-27-2008, 05:32 PM
JMWHALEN JMWHALEN is offline
 
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Originally Posted by stephanos View Post
JMWHALEN, those are both very good posts. Are those from a book that I might be able to read myself, or did you write those out just now?

Much Love in Christ,
Stephen
Thank you, brother. When I was saved out of "Romanism" 10 years ago, I spent much of my time reading the scripture, and writing articles to expound on (hopefully!) those scriptures, rightly divided(2 Timothy 2:15). I do not always "rightly" divide(and who does!), but that is my aim, and charge. I encourage all to be "noble", i.e., practice Acts 17:11="check me out" to see if the things I write "were so." And all are commanded to correct me/others when I/they am/are wrong(2 tim. 3:16 and a host of others) and are not teaching "sound doctrine"(Titus 1:9-2:1).

The post(s) were a compilation of notes over the years.

John M. Whalen

PS: Re. sanctification. Did you ever notice that you cannot physically crucify yourself? Try it-impossible. The Holy Bible would have us to know that even our sanctification, the "crucifixion of the flesh", is of the LORD! Acts 17:11

"Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:" Philippians 1:6
  #7  
Old 10-28-2008, 02:38 PM
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Forrest Forrest is offline
 
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Originally Posted by JMWHALEN View Post
I refuse to ask the LORD God to forgive me for something He already took care of 2000 years ago-that is unbelief. When Christ died, I died. When He was buried, I was buried. When He rose from the dead, I rose from the dead, when He ascended, I ascended.

Hence, the meaning of "baptized into Christ"-Gal. 3:27, Romans 6:3/"baptized into his death"-Romans 6:3=IDENTIFICATION. I have been judged already, all my sins I have committed, or will commit, have been forgiven, and I have been justified. No one can 'lay any charges' against me-"...It is God that justifieth"(Romans 8:33).

In Christ and with Christ ,

John M. Whalen
Thank you for sharing this, Brother John. I also think there is a "bondage" among many true believers today who are not appropriating, by faith, the realities of who and what they are in Christ!

You've addressed many "key doctrines" in your two posts. The great joy to me is that every single doctrine you've referred to is taken care of in the person of the Lord Jesus Christ (forgiveness, redemption, justification, sanctification, reconciliation). I lack "nothing" and "can do nothing" to ever appease a holy, righteous, and perfect God. Believing and receiving Jesus Christ takes care of the just and holy requirements God demands for the appeasement of my sins.

Your quote above is difficult to fully accept by many believers. I am not required, once I've become a believer in the Gospel of truth to "confess" my sins in order to be "forgiven" for my sins. Jesus has already taken care of that. That's the Good News! (1 John 1:9, is not suggesting or commanding that a believer, who has already been cleansed by the precious blood of Christ, is required to continually "confess sins" in order to be forgiven of sins and to be cleansed from all unrighteousness.) We live in such a "duty driven" and "purpose driven" society, that receiving and resting in the biblical realities, by faith, of what we have in Christ is a very difficult thing to do, to say the least.

These are some additional scriptures that come to mind as I read your essay.
Galatians 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.
Hebrews 10:11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:
10:12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
10:13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.
10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
10:15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,
10:16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
10:17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
10:18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.
I think we all agree, do not sin. But what happens if we do?
1John 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
Thanks again for your encouragement regarding this immeasurable truth of Jesus Christ's all sufficiency and preeminence in all things. And may we, "...grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen" (2 Peter 3:18).
  #8  
Old 10-28-2008, 02:59 PM
JMWHALEN JMWHALEN is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Forrest View Post
Thank you for sharing this, Brother John. I also think there is a "bondage" among many true believers today who are not appropriating, by faith, the realities of who and what they are in Christ!

You've addressed many "key doctrines" in your two posts. The great joy to me is that every single doctrine you've referred to is taken care of in the person of the Lord Jesus Christ (forgiveness, redemption, justification, sanctification, reconciliation). I lack "nothing" and "can do nothing" to ever appease a holy, righteous, and perfect God. Believing and receiving Jesus Christ takes care of the just and holy requirements God demands for the appeasement of my sins.

Your quote above is difficult to fully accept by many believers. I am not required, once I've become a believer in the Gospel of truth to "confess" my sins in order to be "forgiven" for my sins. Jesus has already taken care of that. That's the Good News! (1 John 1:9, is not suggesting or commanding that a believer, who has already been cleansed by the precious blood of Christ, is required to continually "confess sins" in order to be forgiven of sins and to be cleansed from all unrighteousness.) We live in such a "duty driven" and "purpose driven" society, that receiving and resting in the biblical realities, by faith, of what we have in Christ is a very difficult thing to do, to say the least.

These are some additional scriptures that come to mind as I read your essay.
Galatians 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.
Hebrews 10:11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:
10:12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
10:13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.
10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
10:15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,
10:16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
10:17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
10:18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.
I think we all agree, do not sin. But what happens if we do?
1John 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
Thanks again for your encouragement regarding this immeasurable truth of Jesus Christ's all sufficiency and preeminence in all things. And may we, "...grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen" (2 Peter 3:18).
Brother Forest,

Thank you FYE("For Your Efification"). As I've said many times, thank God the Father through the Lord Jesus Christ for what he has done for you today, for the Lord Jesus Christ is best magnified when I "stay in the background." The cross is "I" crossed out.

"According to my earnest expectation and my hope, that in nothing I shall be ashamed, but that with all boldness, as always, so now also Christ shall be magnified in my body, whether it be by life, or by death." Philippians 1:20

In and with Christ,

John M. Whalen
  #9  
Old 10-28-2008, 10:59 PM
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stephanos stephanos is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Forrest View Post
Thank you for sharing this, Brother John. I also think there is a "bondage" among many true believers today who are not appropriating, by faith, the realities of who and what they are in Christ!

You've addressed many "key doctrines" in your two posts. The great joy to me is that every single doctrine you've referred to is taken care of in the person of the Lord Jesus Christ (forgiveness, redemption, justification, sanctification, reconciliation). I lack "nothing" and "can do nothing" to ever appease a holy, righteous, and perfect God. Believing and receiving Jesus Christ takes care of the just and holy requirements God demands for the appeasement of my sins.

Your quote above is difficult to fully accept by many believers. I am not required, once I've become a believer in the Gospel of truth to "confess" my sins in order to be "forgiven" for my sins. Jesus has already taken care of that. That's the Good News! (1 John 1:9, is not suggesting or commanding that a believer, who has already been cleansed by the precious blood of Christ, is required to continually "confess sins" in order to be forgiven of sins and to be cleansed from all unrighteousness.) We live in such a "duty driven" and "purpose driven" society, that receiving and resting in the biblical realities, by faith, of what we have in Christ is a very difficult thing to do, to say the least.

These are some additional scriptures that come to mind as I read your essay.
Galatians 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.
Hebrews 10:11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:
10:12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
10:13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.
10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
10:15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,
10:16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
10:17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
10:18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.
I think we all agree, do not sin. But what happens if we do?
1John 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
Thanks again for your encouragement regarding this immeasurable truth of Jesus Christ's all sufficiency and preeminence in all things. And may we, "...grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen" (2 Peter 3:18).
Good stuff. Made me think of another gem within that great book of gems ^_^

Romans 8:31-39 (KJV) What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us? He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things? Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth. Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter. Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Praise JESUS! I'm so glad He left us His Words.

Much Love in Christ,
Stephen
  #10  
Old 10-29-2008, 06:37 AM
aussiemama
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Is Paul Washer the idiot that yells at teens and tells them they aren't saved just because they are wearing a t-shirt he doesn't like, or some other similar thing?
 

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