[MC1171611]

Originally Posted by Maverick

How can a "perfect" bible come from imperfect MSS? One *CANNOT* be an onlyist and NOT believe the KJV translators were inspired by God


No party line here,just trying to provoke thought..

I firmly, completely and unabashedly believe that God inspired the KJB translators. I may be somewhat alone in this, but that's what I believe from the Scriptures (that you don't believe, might I add); see my study on Inspiration here, though I know the effort is wasted on someone as blase and typical as yourself.

I've been around a while, and 90% of the people online, as far as "Christians" go, believe the exact same thing (or don't believe is more like it) as you. They doubt God's words, refuse to believe God preserved them in one volume, and claim that we cannot access the pure word of God today. You're completely unoriginal, un-"maverick"-like, and sadly mistaken in your LACK OF FAITH IN GOD.

Again, you're wasting your time and ours. We have more important things to do...like shovel snow or check our email.

Originally Posted by CKG

Does anyone know why the NKJV uses the word "terebinth" instead of "oak" as in the KJV?

Yes, and I can answer that in less than 10 words:

Because the NKJV is INFERIOR to the KJV.

Originally Posted by TimV

No, the Afrikaans translators were farmers who'd been in Africa for 300 years. They saw no need to translate from the KJV, but rather thought it best to follow the Reformation principle of translating from the source.

I was not referring to Afrikaans farmers,I was referring to the producers of the NKJB and the original question regarding their use of "Terebinth" instead of "Oak"......but if the hat fits, wear it....it seems to me that the Afrikaans tranlators were influenced more by their hatred of the British and their own inflated opinions of their abilities than a desire to accurately translate Gods Word.

Just what is "the source" of the material used to translate the Afrikkans Bible?

Correct me if I am wrong, but with Alexandria being closer to South Africa than Antioch, I'm guessing a lot of it came with Origin's fingerprints all over it.

fundy

Correct me if I am wrong, but with Alexandria being closer to South Africa than Antioch, I'm guessing a lot of it came with Origin's fingerprints all over it.

Christian culture came to South Africa by ship. Like Christian culture came to the US by ship. Ask yourself whether Alexandria being closer to Florida than Antioch would have influenced churches in Florida, and you'll have your answer.

[MC1171611]

A region's proximity to Egypt has little to do with its bias as far as its translation of the Bible goes; the whole of Israel is much closer to Egypt than Asia Minor, yet we don't call the Apostles corrupt as a result.

Oak != pistachio. (!= means "is not equal to") The Book says Oak, and it was an Oak tree. Why anyone would want to differ from that is beyond me, other than someone is setting himself up as an authority over the written word of God.

Here is one article that is a good starting point and note that it directly contradicts TimV's view that "terebinth" is more sensible gardenistically. This column in the Jewish Forward often has excellent material. I will only quote the conclusion that has the "garden variety" part.

http://www.forward.com/articles/11956/
Oaks or Terebinths? By Philologos Tue. Nov 06, 2007

... That leaves oaks and terebinths. I’ll take oaks.

Here’s why. In the first place, while “oaks” is the oldest translation we have of elonei, “terebinths” is the most recent. The Septuagint rendition may represent a genuine tradition passed down from the time the book of Genesis was composed. The Soncino Press edition obviously does not.

Moreover, terebinths, whose small leaves indeed smell a bit like turpentine when crushed, may have an impressive-sounding name, but they are not very impressive in appearance. The terebinth is an evergreen shrub that rarely grows to more than 7 or 8 feet and is found all over Israel

Again, I'm not here to argue. I have a successful landscape contracting business, and am a licenced arborist
http://www.pbase.com/beekeeper/work

If you knew anything about pistachio trees, you would not have posted the above. A terebinth tree commonly gets over 30 feet, despite what you can come up with by trolling the internet. I make my living by dealing with trees, including various pistachios. We use them commonly here on the Central Coast of California, as well as oaks, and I prefer eating my lunch under terebinth trees.

I am happy that you prefer the word oak. And I will leave you with that.

Originally Posted by TimV

Christian culture came to South Africa by ship. Like Christian culture came to the US by ship. Ask yourself whether Alexandria being closer to Florida than Antioch would have influenced churches in Florida, and you'll have your answer.

OH PHULEEEESE!!...well, I asked for it, you corrected me..but I was being SARCASTIC!

Still, it was a good attempt to avoid answering the question... what is "the source" the Afrikaaner translators went to after rejecting the KJB?

fundy

OH PHULEEEESE!!...well, I asked for it, you corrected me..but I was being SARCASTIC!

Still, it was a good attempt to avoid answering the question... what is "the source" the Afrikaaner translators went to after rejecting the KJB?

fundy

Allow me to make a guess. You don't speak more than one language, do you?

And you're not much for history, right? A little FOX NEWS at night?

Tell me why should a group of translators care one way or another what a bunch of Englishmen did? Do you think that the Gothic version was based on the KJV? If so, why? If not why? Sould the Afrikaner translators have referenced the TR and MH texts, or would you prefer that they (remember their people didn't speak English) have used the KJV???

Please let fundy answer this post rather than covering for him. Thanks.

[Steven Avery]

Hi Folks,

Originally Posted by TimV

If you knew anything about pistachio trees, you would not have posted the above. A terebinth tree commonly gets over 30 feet, despite what you can come up with by trolling the internet.

Tim, I realize very well that terebinth trees come in various shapes and sizes, that Philogos was giving a limited perspective (remember I was just giving a smidgen at work today, not a full study). From what I gather oak trees are by nature of decent size and always tree-ish, worthy of note, while terebinths are all over the map. So the Philogos view still does make sense, worthy of consideration. (One consideration, following that aspect, is precisely how trees were in that section of the Middle East 3000 years ago, something that is likely impossible to pin down. Were there imposing terebinth groves or landmarks or not ? If so, were they the norm or very exceptional ? How about oaks ? In another discussion about chestnut trees and another type of tree I found that folks tend to make dubious assertions when they want to correct the pure Bible.)

Overall, I always find such discussions interesting, often I find the "scholars" went a bit haywire in the late 1800s or in the 1900s, changing the existing view using sloppy reasoning. Or with a langugae fascination with Ugaritic or Akkadian or other cognates, which are extremely unreliable and tend to lead to faulty concepts and translations. The fact that you got a little snippy about a simple post is, however, makes me wonder again, as in Revelation 22:19, what is your underlying motive and heart about the purity of the Bible.

As for the Afrikaans Bible, you might simply point out that the old Afrikaans Bibles are Received Text base, from about the 1930s, while in recent times they have the corrupt critical text behind new editions. Probably the early Afrikaans Bible is generally quite good, although they are unlikely to have brought any special insight into ancient Hebrew to account for any particular divergences from the King James Bible.

Returning to terebinths, unlike oak it does seem that the common understanding is a small or moderate-sized shrub-like tree.

http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Terebinth
Terebinth
It is a small deciduous tree or large shrub growing to 10 m tall. The leaves are compound, 10-20 cm long, odd pinnate with five to eleven opposite glossy oval leaflets, the leaflets 2-6 cm long and 1-3 cm broad. The flowers are reddish-purple, appearing with the new leaves in early spring. The fruit consists of small, globular drupes 5-7 mm long, red to black when ripe. All parts of the plant have a strong resinous smell.

There really is a ton more material about this for consideration, for those interested. Of course the explanation above, as you point out, is not a mandate for all terebinths, however with the word having lots of nuance in the Hebrew, it is again a decent consideration.

Shalom,
Steven Avery

Thanks, Steve, you seem an honorable person.

From what I gather oak trees are by nature large and imposing, worthy of note, while terebinth trees are all over the map.

No, it's the same for both trees. The scrub oak of my native California being, well, what it's name implies.