The Geneva 1560 - Page 3

bibleprotector · 10-24-2008, 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Just_A_Thought

I know the popular opinion on this forum is that the KJV is ... thr inspired Word of God.

This means you either believe the Word of God is not inspired, and/or that it is not available today in English retaining the power of inspiration (i.e. we do not really have the Word of God in English).

OR

That you are deliberately rejecting the statements of people on this forum who have said that the King James Bible was not made by inspiration from 1604 to 1611.

Just_A_Thought · 10-25-2008, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JMWHALEN

_________________
"I personally do not believe ..."

Please clarify. Are you saying that what you believe determines the objective truth? And just what is "personally", i.e., I here this often re. many moral/theological issues today-mostly politicians. Ever heard the argument:

Nope. Truth is always right. If I am wrong then I do not believe what happens to be true however I believe that which I believe is truth.

I am "personally Against abortion, i.e., I "personally" do not believe it is right/moral....., but I don't want to impose my "personal" beliefs on others. By that "argument", let's all go home, pack it in, and if anyone paid a fee to be a member of this board, let's refund the money. For Judges 21:25 has come full circle="All mushrooms are good."

It's not that I do not want to show people what I believe but simply think it would be rude of me to join an AV1611 Board and then post some NIV verses. It would be like me joining a Mormon forum and then hammering all the lies they teach. I am not out to be rude!

No-Belief and objective truth are independent.

It is irrelevant what I say, what you say, or what I or you "personally" believe.The only issue is: Does what I "personally" believe "line up" with the objective truth of the scriptures?- Isaiah 8:20, "...what saith the scripture?...(Romans 4:3, Galatians 4:30).

I agree with you on this...

So, does the Holy Bible testify, witness that it is perfect, or not? Yes or No? Simple. If yes, it is quite irrelevant if you or I believe it or not, since truth goes on eternally whether you/I/anyone else believes it or not.

The Bible testifies that God's Words are perfect but as the Bible state,"Psa 119:89 [LAMED.] Foreuer, O Lord, thy word is setled, in heauen."-KJV1611. I believe God's perfect Word is in Heaven and I believe it is Jesus Christ. "Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, & the Word was with God, and the Word was God."-KJV1611. I believe God did move people to write His perfect Word but people have corrupted it over time. The originals are gone and no two manuscripts used for the TR completely agreed. Since this is the case I believe we have no perfect Word of God.
In Christ,

John M. Whalen

I have answered you questions but prefer not to carry on with this. I am not out to offend anyone on this forum and would like to be able to discuss other things. I will happily use the KJV since I see nothing wrong with it and it would be a stumbling-block to most everyone here if I used anything else.

Just_A_Thought · 10-25-2008, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bibleprotector

This means you either believe the Word of God is not inspired, and/or that it is not available today in English retaining the power of inspiration (i.e. we do not really have the Word of God in English).

OR

That you are deliberately rejecting the statements of people on this forum who have said that the King James Bible was not made by inspiration from 1604 to 1611.

The originals are gone and the copies do not all agree with each other. So the copies of the originals are no longer perfect.

Also, I do not believe that the KJV1611 was inspired. If it was, why was it the chosen one. Why was not the Geneva, Great Bible (The first authorized version), etc. Where does the belief that the KJV1611 was inspired when even the writers did not know this?

bibleprotector · 10-25-2008, 07:39 PM

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So the copies of the originals are no longer perfect.

This means you do not believe that the Word of God is perfectly present, let alone in English.

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Where does the belief that the KJV1611 was inspired when even the writers did not know this?

Why are you BLATANTLY ignoring our statements? Over and again, it has been made clear that the KJB was not made by inspiration 1604-1611, yet you still FALSELY IMPLY that this is what is being argued on this forum.

What is being argued is that God has been able to providentially get His inspired Word into English perfectly. Namely, that Scripture is from God. That God is all powerful. Therefore, the Word which He gave originally has not been lost, but is now going forth to all nations, despite of the language being now used.

Just_A_Thought · 10-25-2008, 09:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bibleprotector

This means you do not believe that the Word of God is perfectly present, let alone in English.

Why are you BLATANTLY ignoring our statements? Over and again, it has been made clear that the KJB was not made by inspiration 1604-1611, yet you still FALSELY IMPLY that this is what is being argued on this forum.

What is being argued is that God has been able to providentially get His inspired Word into English perfectly. Namely, that Scripture is from God. That God is all powerful. Therefore, the Word which He gave originally has not been lost, but is now going forth to all nations, despite of the language being now used.

I am not falsey implying anything. If I missed something I appologize. Take a chill pill buddy! Anyway, what is the difference. How did God give us a perfect Bible if He did not inspire the translators. Plus, how do we know the KJV is perfect? I wish to end this conversation as not to offend anyone. I have stated this several times now. Feel free to answer and I will not even try to counter you.

bibleprotector · 10-25-2008, 10:10 PM

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I appologize.

That would be alright if you made just a mistake, but then this statement:

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Anyway, what is the difference.

In other words, yet implying that we do believe that KJB was made by inspiration 1604-1611, because

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How did God give us a perfect Bible if He did not inspire the translators.

That is, since we say perfect, and since inspiration was perfect in the day of Moses or Paul, therefore us saying perfect means that the KJB men were inspired. This is a false argument.

The real logic of faith is this: The Scripture is given by God. God is all powerful. Scripture is perfect. Therefore, when God gave the Scripture perfectly, He intended that it should also be perfect before the Second Coming. Therefore, by His power, He has been able to ensure that the Church generally has had His Word, and specifically allowed for men in the Church to be able to discern and present His Word in the last days. This is because in all the copies, there is some correct Scripture there, and in the majority of the majority of them are they correct (in Greek). Selecting the correct words from the Greek to translate into English is not "inspiration". And to understand the bigger picture of readings, possible translations and the like, and to do it rightly is rather providential by God's supply of the right men at the right time and right place with the right things to make the right Bible, which is not "inspiration", but Divine Providence.

Quote:

Plus, how do we know the KJV is perfect?

Internal evidence: what it says about itself is exactly true and applies fully and exactly to itself (unlike other versions).
External evidence: all the signs are there showing that the KJB is it.
When you take the big picture, it is clear that there can be only one.