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#21
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Jassy, I have to make one more comment.
You said: "It isn't promised, until it gets REALLY BAD and there are almost no true Christians left! (A remnant)" The rapture of the church can happen at any time. There is nothing that has to be accomplished first. The rapture could have happened in the first century anytime after 70 AD when the Temple was destroyed, the Kingdom offer withdrawn from Israel, and the revelation of the mystery of the gentile church had begun. There is no timing given for the rapture of the church. The prophetic clock stopped with the sacrifice of the Jewish Messiah, and the withdrawal of the Kingdom offer to Israel. It won't start ticking again until the Church is out of the picture and the Son of Perdition confirms a covenant with Israel. At that point the 7 year Tribulation, or Day of the Lord, begins. Daniel 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. 9:25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate. Timing and prophecy and numbering (census) have to do only with Israel. The gentile church is a mystery, as we know, not revealed until Paul. The gentile church is never numbered, never given any prophetic time line. We might guess it's about over because we might assume 7000 years from creation through the millennium. We may feel it is close because we see the signs increasing that Jesus spoke of in Matthew 24 & Luke 21. Yet, Jesus said, 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. 24:37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 24:38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, 24:39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. The second coming of Christ when he places His feet on the Mt. of Olives, when He comes to rule the earth for 1000 years can be timed once the anti-christ confirms the covenant with Israel and not before. That coming will happen 7 years after the anti-christ confirms the covenant with Israel, and 3 1/2 years after the abomination of desolation. Jesus says that no man knows the day and the hour, only the Father, and to "therefore be ye ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh." Matt 24:44. If you are interested, there are some straight-forward, short books on pre-millennialism and pre-tribulation rapture by John Walvoord that are really good, like "The Return of the Lord" and "The Rapture Question". Allen Beechick, "The Pre-Tribulation Rapture" is easy and excellent. Tim LaHaye's "No Fear of the Storm" is good, as well. You may have already read it but a "must read" (that is, I must read it again after all these years) is "Things That Differ" by C.R. Stam. I found "Delving Thru Daniel" by Noah Hutchings to be very basic, readable, and informative regarding Daniel's prophecies. I hope you find any or all of this information helpful. Your sister in Christ, Jennifer Last edited by greenbear; 05-27-2009 at 08:53 PM. |
#22
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Well...you weren't here to clarify so we ran with our first impression of what you said! Sorry, Winman. (I fervently hope you find this funny and not offensive. I can't stop giggling at the beat a dead horse icon. It must be because it's very late and I'm very tired. It probably won't be as funny in the morning.)
Last edited by greenbear; 05-27-2009 at 11:37 PM. |
#23
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It is true though in many states if you have a gathering on a regular basis that has more than 15 people in attendance you are to get a permit. it is a lawful assembly permit in some places in others it is known by different names. but the point is they have regulation about large groups that gather together regularly.
if they had a block party that is the same permit they would have to get. it is no biggy just get a permit. and while your at it invite the city workers to come too. |
#24
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#25
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I am sorry that I haven't gotten back to answer your reply posted here! I have been busy with other things for a bit. I'm sure that we would have a lot of biblical beliefs in common and, perhaps, some similar experiences as well. Maybe we could chat or email sometime together apart from the Forum. I would enjoy that. Satan is certainly the god of this world... that's readily visible, as we see the way the world is today. Yes! It is primarily a spiritual battle. Sure, some of it may be physical as well - however, such a physical battle will arise out of a spiritual one. A conflict between God and Lucifer, who wishes to do battle with God. I agree with you that it is so vital to hide His Word in our hearts - we must literally BURROW it there - so that there is no way it can be ferreted out by the enemy. We will have it at the ready, as needed. It's scary to imagine a time when perhaps our Bible will be taken away from us. I feel ashamed, since I used to have so much more Scripture memorized! I went for quite a long period of time without renewing the Word within me - so I found that I had forgotten so much. Thank you for differentiating between the persecution of the saints and the WRATH of God. Definitely different! We certainly do not wish to be on earth during that wrath!! Then, we would know we had missed the rapture!! I'm so glad you came out of the legalism of the SDA church. I had met a man online and he was an SDA church member. His father was a minister. He actually admitted to me, when I pointed out several things, that there was error in the doctrine that the SDA church teaches. Sadly enough, he told me that he could not disobey his father by quitting the SDA Church. My question is: Would he rather disobey His HUMAN father or his HEAVENLY Father? He was 40 years old, so that's quite old enough to make a decision and to be confident enough to leave a church, even if his father was a minister, if there was profound error in it. Like you, I also came out of a very legalistic, Israel/church identity confusion from a church with a lot of doctrinal error (the Worldwide Church of God), also. So, I can understand where you are coming from in that. I love your vehemance about FAITH/BELIEF being the only requirement for salvation that we have. Everyone must start at that point. Hebrews 11:6 - "But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him." I see that you especially love some of the same Books of the Bible that I do: 2 Cor, Eph, 6, Rom 8... Thank you for the correction, if the remnant is Israel. I have to admit that I'm still learning and somewhat confused from past teachings that I had learned. It's almost like being DE-PROGRAMMED!!! I think we'd better ask brother George on this one!! He seems to be so wisely and excellently prepared to answer any Bible issues. I've always checked his responses in the Bible and find them to be solid and dependable. Love in Christ, Jassy |
#26
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Hello Jennifer, my sister in Christ, Thank you so much for the book recommendations. I will look them up. I appreciate that you took the time to list them and the Scriptures. I have to address one thing. You said that the rapture of the Church could happen at any moment and that there is nothing that needs to be done first. I believe that what has to be done is: "And this gospel of the the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come." (Matthew 24:14) So the last of the believers has to be gathered like hens under the wings of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. The only way that the last of these can be gathered is if they HEAR the Word of God and BELIEVE. Romans 10 13 - "For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved." 14 - "How then shall they call on him in whom they have no believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?" 15 - "And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!" 16 - "But they have not obeyed the gospel. For Esias saith, Lord who hath believed our report?" 17 - "So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God." So I think the preaching of the gospel EVERYWHERE has to come first. They have said for YEARS that that is close... I do not know. How do we evaluate that? GOD KNOWS!!! Love in Christ, Jassy |
#27
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Life does get in the way of our chatboards sometimes. Please never feel rushed if you have occasion to reply to a post from me. Life can get busy. I can wait! I would enjoy chatting or emailing apart from the board sometime, as well. I spent years away from God's Word except for sporadic reunions lasting days or weeks. I sure hope it's different this time. I think it is. I'm happy you aren't offended by my last posts. I had to respond because I am intimately aware of where you're coming from with the remnant/enduring to the end to earn/keep salvation & parable of the 10 virgins-I know you didn't post that parable but it is part of the same error so I mention it. None of it has to do with the church. Here is a doctrine of the Worldwide Church of God under Tkach (it looks familiar!): Yet Tkach has also taught that believers can lose their salvation by not being overcomers: "Salvation is one thing but overcoming is another. And if we are not interested in overcoming, you can rest assured that salvation is not going to be there. Salvation is a present possession. However, it does not mean once saved always saved in any way, shape or form. You have to overcome and endure to the end" (Joseph Tkach Sr., "Feast of Tabernacles," Sept. 30, 1993). "If the Christian remains faithful and does not turn away from God, his salvation remains firm and secure. In that sense, 'once saved always saved' is right" (Pastor General Report, May 15, 1990). That is false doctrine. That is an offense to the finished work that Christ accomplished on the cross. Here I go again... You said: Quote:
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I'm glad to ask along with you for brother George's answers to these questions. I believe that he is trustworthy to answer Bible issues giving scriptural support; including the eternal security of the believer, the identity of the remnant, whether it is Israel or the church that has to endure to the end, as well as whether or not there remains anything that must occur before the rapture of the church can take place. In His Love, Your sister Jennifer Last edited by greenbear; 05-29-2009 at 12:14 AM. |
#28
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If you read any one of my numerous recommendations I would choose "Things that Differ" by C R Stam. Quote:
Grace and Peace, Jennifer |
#29
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#30
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A lot of Christians are not willing to think about the US becoming a non-freedom of religion country. They keep saying Jesus will rapture us up, before any of this happens. Sorry if I misunderstood you. I do hope my reply helped others, though, who might be weak and anxious about their future here. |
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