REV.22: 16 says these things i testify unto the churches , this is not all mankind without exception, its addressed to the churches.

quote;
If people do not have a choice in getting saved, then why did Jesus give the commission in Mark 16:15-"Go ye into ALL the world, and PREACH THE GOSPEL to EVERY creature" , why are we told that if they don't have a choice? end quote.

When a person is born again , God gives that individual in the new birth the ability to keep his commandments, and we are told in 1 Jn.3:23 This is his commandment that we should believe.
Ezek.11:19-20 tells us what God does in the new birth.
I will take the stoney heart out of your flesh and i will give them a heart of flesh that they may walk in my statutes and keep my ordinances and do them.
So God gives you the new heart so you are able to keep his commandments , one of which is to believe on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ.
God , in the new birth gives you the ability to believe . The preaching of the Word of God gives the opportunity to exercise the ability.
Most people think that the preaching is what gives us the ability to believe.
We cannot here God's words if we are not of God. If we don't have the ability to believe we will not see the truth of the gospel. Notice what Paul said in 2 COR.4:34 If the gospel is hid it is hid to them that are lost.
Notice that the gospel here is referred to as a shining light.
If an individual has no faith he doesn't see it because he's blind , He doesn't have the ability to see,
so that understanding it like that, we draw this conclusion, that faith is to the word of God as sight is to light.
Sight is the ability to see , but if there's no light no matter how good your vision is you will not see.
Every child of God who has been born again has sight , but he can't see till the light shines.
So the purpose of the gospel is to provide the light so the born again child of God with sight can see.
If God hasn't given a man the ability to believe, you can preach till your blue in the face and it will have no effect.

Nothing like twisting Scripture! The Bible clearly teaches that the new birth is a RESULT OF our faith in Christ (ie. believing the Gospel), not prior to it.

John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

1 Peter 1:23-25 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away: But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.

[chette777]

The Grace of God is given to all but each man being dealt with individually in this dispensation must make a choice no man is saved apart from his free will to accept Christ finished work. Faith alone will save. and if God can save and He can keep us saved, if not he is not a God that we should consider.

again and again most of you are off because you are not following the rule of cammand given in 2Tim 2:15 the rule of study is rightly dividing the word of truth. Revelation churches are still yet future churches no matter waht anyone says. Angels are not over Churches today but they wil be in the Tribulation. and you will notice that there is work for those churches to follow. endure to the end, he who overcomes these are faith plus work the rule of faith to get into the Kingdom. for the Body of Christ is completed and no more shall be added after the Tribulation starts. those saved in tribulation become subject in the Kingdom. and these churches in Revelation may be Jewish and not Gentile. but there will be a great number who are under the altar of God who will have their place in the kingdom.

but inthis dispensation Faith alone to get saved, stay saved, grow daily in Christ and in service to Him who has called us unto his marvelous grace.

Matthew 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Saved from what? From sins? That's not even in the context. Saved from dying during the tribulation, surviving until Christ's return at the end of the tribulation.

There are other Bible verses to show that the word "saved" or "salvation" do not always refer to spiritual deliverance. Such as:

Deliverance from enemies:
Psalms 18:3 I will call upon the LORD, who is worthy to be praised: so shall I be saved from mine enemies.

Deliverance from perishing in the flood:
2 Peter 2:5 And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;
1 Peter 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

Delivered in some way in childbearing:
1 Timothy 2:15 Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.

Delivered during shipwreck:
Acts 27:20 And when neither sun nor stars in many days appeared, and no small tempest lay on us, all hope that we should be saved was then taken away.

Not delivered from the cross:
Matthew 27:42 He saved others; himself he cannot save. If he be the King of Israel, let him now come down from the cross, and we will believe him.

Man delivered from being wiped out during the tribulation period:
Matthew 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

Delivered during the famine:
Genesis 47:25 And they said, Thou hast saved our lives: let us find grace in the sight of my lord, and we will be Pharaoh's servants.

Delivered the babies from being killed:
Exodus 1:17 But the midwives feared God, and did not as the king of Egypt commanded them, but saved the men children alive.

Delivered from the destruction of Jericho:
Joshua 6:25 And Joshua saved Rahab the harlot alive, and her father's household, and all that she had; and she dwelleth in Israel even unto this day; because she hid the messengers, which Joshua sent to spy out Jericho.

There are more passages that specifically use these terms in a sense other than spiritual deliverance. In regards to those passages about the tribulation, the believers are faced with being martyred for their faith - and Jesus tells them if they persevere to the end, they will be delivered and see His return:

Luke 21:27-28 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

[chette777]

the context is those in the dispensation of the Great Tribulation. these when they come through enter the next dispensation. some are calling Jesusu Lord Lord but their judgement is yet to come.

whenI spoke of their enduring I refered to Revelation letters to the churches in Tribulation which is the same context of Matt 24-25. and those according to Revelation letters to the churches will be saved intothe kingdom there theywill live long lives to prove theire faith those who die in the Tribulation they have salvation by faith and works (i.e. those who are under the Altar) in the Kingdom it is salvation by pure works alone.

this is the area Paul consider to be looking into a glass darkly. but right divisional study will clear it all up. no calvanism is found in the KJV

[George]

To: GraceToMe Re: (Post #121)

"God gives you the new heart so you are able to keep his commandments". {WHO is this verse addressed to? Jews or Christians?}

If you read the verse in Ezekiel (IN CONTEXT) - God was speaking about His people ISRAEL, (and a future promise - not yet fulfilled), not Christians in this age of Grace. We (Christians) do NOT, I repeat, do NOT have a new heart - yet. Sad to say we are still saddled with our old deceitful heart: [Jeremiah 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?]. That is the main reason why there is so much difference of "opinion" amongst the "brethren" - as is evidenced on this Forum also.

Ezekiel 11:14 Again the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,

15 Son of man, thy brethren, even thy brethren, the men of thy kindred, and all the house of Israel wholly, are they unto whom the inhabitants of Jerusalem have said, Get you far from the LORD: unto us is this land given in possession.

{Who are the "brethren" & "kindred" here - Jews/Hebrews/Israelites - NOT Christians}

16 Therefore say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Although I have cast them far off among the heathen, and although I have scattered them among the countries, yet will I be to them as a little sanctuary in the countries where they shall come.

{Who are the "them" & "they" here - Jews/Hebrews/Israelites - NOT Christians}

17 Therefore say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; I will even gather you from the people, and assemble you out of the countries where ye have been scattered, and I will give you the land of Israel.

{Who are the "you" & "ye" here - Jews/Hebrews/Israelites - NOT Christians}

18 And they shall come thither, and they shall take away all the detestable things thereof and all the abominations thereof from thence.

{Who are the "they" here - Jews/Hebrews/Israelites - NOT Christians}

19 And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh:

{Who are the "them" & "you" & "their" here - Jews/Hebrews/Israelites - NOT Christians}

20 That they may walk in my statutes, and keep mine ordinances, and do them: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God.

{Who are the "they" & "my people" & "their" here - Jews/Hebrews/Israelites - NOT Christians}

We Christians have been commanded by God to: "Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth". 2 Timothy 2:15

If you do not rightly divide "the word of truth" you are going to end up confusing: PROMISES; PROPHECIES; and COMMANDMENTS meant only for the Jews/Hebrews/Israelites; and in doing so you will end up with "False Doctrine".

By the way - you cannot make any real sense out of the Bible unless you do "rightly divide" His Holy word.

[chette777]

Amen George

Originally Posted by chette777

those who die in the Tribulation they have salvation by faith and works (i.e. those who are under the Altar) in the Kingdom it is salvation by pure works alone.

Last I checked, Revelation 6 does not specify how those under the altar were saved. It is a far stretch to say they were saved by works when the passage nowhere addresses this.

When the Church ( Body of Christ) is raptured out of this world before the Tribulation, (Matt.3:7 ; 1 Thess 5:9 ; Rev. 6:16-17), the dispensation as it is today will no longer be, because the Holy Spirit will no longer regenerate and seal believers, and place believers in Christ after Christ ratures His Body out.

I agree with what you are saying, but the rapture would be before any of the seals are broken, as all seven seals are part of the tribulation period. You can see them parallelled in Matthew 24. The rising and peace treaty of the one world leader, the wars, the famines and plagues, the martyrdoms, are all part of the first half of the seven year period.