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Old 06-25-2009, 02:44 PM
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Fredoheaven Fredoheaven is offline
 
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Default Are we to hate for the sake of Christ?

Luke 14:26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.

So what can you say about this verse? I am figuring what this verse means. Do I need to hate everybody for the sake of Christ? In the other thread, someone suggested that I need not twist English. I know you Englishpeople/brethren alike, would you please tell me if hate/hatred needed to grow me spiritually?
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Old 06-25-2009, 03:41 PM
whirlwind
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Originally Posted by Fredoheaven View Post
Luke 14:26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.

So what can you say about this verse? I am figuring what this verse means. Do I need to hate everybody for the sake of Christ? In the other thread, someone suggested that I need not twist English. I know you Englishpeople/brethren alike, would you please tell me if hate/hatred needed to grow me spiritually?


I believe that as the commandment is to "honor thy father and thy mother," this translation is in error. It is better phrased in.....
Matthew 10:37 He that loveth father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me.
We are to love and honor our family but....He must come first. We may well be required to leave our family for His sake. Is that physically or emotionally or both? If your family goes in a direction you know is wrong you cannot follow.
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Old 06-25-2009, 10:21 PM
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Originally Posted by whirlwind View Post
I believe that as the commandment is to "honor thy father and thy mother," this translation is in error. It is better phrased in.....
Matthew 10:37 He that loveth father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me.
We are to love and honor our family but....He must come first. We may well be required to leave our family for His sake. Is that physically or emotionally or both? If your family goes in a direction you know is wrong you cannot follow.
My friend, I think perhaps you might be in the wrong forum, for one thing, you are not qualified to correct the Scriptures based on your own private interpretations.

Jud 21:25 In those days there was no king in Israel: every man did that which was right in his own eyes..

Grace and peace

Tony
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Old 06-26-2009, 06:18 AM
whirlwind
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Originally Posted by tonybones2112 View Post
My friend, I think perhaps you might be in the wrong forum, for one thing, you are not qualified to correct the Scriptures based on your own private interpretations.

Jud 21:25 In those days there was no king in Israel: every man did that which was right in his own eyes..

Grace and peace

Tony
I must agree....I am not qualified nor would I attempt to correct Scripture. For that reason I quoted another Scripture that gave the meaning to that same verse. I wasn't aware of any private interpretation being given. .
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Old 06-25-2009, 06:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Fredoheaven View Post
Luke 14:26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.

So what can you say about this verse? I am figuring what this verse means. Do I need to hate everybody for the sake of Christ? In the other thread, someone suggested that I need not twist English. I know you Englishpeople/brethren alike, would you please tell me if hate/hatred needed to grow me spiritually?
Of course not. Love is the clearest evidence of a changed heart and mark of true discipleship, brother.

John 13:34-35 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

This is the APPLICATION we can make to ourselves. By comparing scripture with scripture we know for an absolute fact that hating your father, mother, wife, children, brethren, sister, and yes, even yourself is not the desire of Christ.

But there is a very clear and strong message to all who desire to love and follow Christ. Our devotion and love for the Lord Jesus Christ should be so great and superior that compared to all others and even to our self it would be hatred. The point is that Jesus Christ is preeminent in all things and He should be loved first and last. The interesting thing is that when we love Jesus Christ with our whole heart we keep his commands...like love one another as He has loved us.

Luke 14:26-27 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple. And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple.
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Old 06-25-2009, 07:54 PM
Bro. Parrish
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Fredoheaven that is an excellent question.

I think Forrest is correct,
it is a comparative statement and I like the way he phrased it...

"Our devotion and love for the Lord Jesus Christ should be so great and superior that compared to all others and even to our self it would be hatred."

I would have to disagree with Whirlwind, I do not see the word HATE as an ERROR, as I do not think we have errors in our inerrant Bible. So that means I have to adjust my thinking to the Word of God and accept is exactly as it is written. I think if a man chooses to truly follow Christ in discipleship, that man must reach a moment when his family, his father, his mother, his friends all become less than Christ. This is not an easy thing to do, but it allows our entire focus to be on Christ and at that moment Jesus becomes EVERYTHING. The entire world becomes NOTHING, least of all a friend.

This is a hard line to draw, but James challenges the sinners in his day by asking them...

"Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the ENEMY OF GOD."- James 4:4

Let's also remember that not all families and peer groups are supportive of Christianity. Many times young Christians will be openly attacked by family members and friends, who attempt to drag them back into the world and the patterns of flesh they came from. This can take many forms. For example, it could be an older brother, or perhaps a sister in law who is trying to force the new believer to smoke cigarettes and drink alchohol like the "old days." For a young woman, it could be an old boyfriend or lover who is trying to keep her out of church or Bible study for his own selfish reasons. It could be a family member who is wrapped up in the stench of Islam or maybe a cult like the Mormons or JW's, and hates the idea of their child taking a different path of doctrine.

But at that moment the disciple of Christ has to make a decision;
CHRIST OR OTHERS. This does not mean we are not to honor our parents, and it doesn't mean we are to seek trouble. But sooner or later we will have to make a decision to allow Christ to become the pinnacle in our life. At that moment your decision to stand for Christ can split your family wide open and CHALLENGE ANY RELATIONSHIP YOU HAVE ON EARTH. This can result in bad feelings, and I have seen men throwing furniture around, mothers screaming at sons, and sisters screaming about the new "Jesus freak." In many cases this trouble does not last, and the Christian is eventually accepted along with the new lifestyle adjustments, but it can get rough in the beginning. That's why Jesus said...

"Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law." - Matt. 10:34-35
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Old 06-25-2009, 08:59 PM
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chette777 chette777 is offline
 
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Whirly's quote: I believe that as the commandment is to "honor thy father and thy mother," this translation is in error. It is better phrased in...

are you denying the inerrancy or the KJV Bible?

You, like the deceived Eve have just changed the Word of God

If so why are you on this site. We all believe the KJV Bible has no errors
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Old 06-25-2009, 09:30 PM
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I think the meaning of "hate" in this context is to love less than or have less esteem for relative to something else.

Luke 16:13 No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

Hebrews 12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

1 Thessalonians 5:20 Despise not prophesyings.

Alternately,

Matthew 6:21 For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.
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Old 06-25-2009, 09:32 PM
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Webster's 1828 Dictionary [A-J]
hate
HATE, v.t. L. odi, for hodi.

1. To dislike greatly; to have a great aversion to. It expresses less than abhor, detest, and abominate, unless pronounced with a peculiar emphasis.

How long will fools hate knowledge? Prov.1.

Blessed are ye when men shall hate you. Luke 6.

The Roman tyrant was contented to be hated, if he was but feared.

2. In Scripture, it signifies to love less.

If any man come to me, and hate not father and mother, &c. Luke 14.

He that spareth the rod, hateth his son. Prov. 13.

HATE, n. Great dislike or aversion; hatred.
  #10  
Old 06-26-2009, 06:28 AM
whirlwind
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chette777 View Post
Whirly's quote: I believe that as the commandment is to "honor thy father and thy mother," this translation is in error. It is better phrased in...

are you denying the inerrancy or the KJV Bible?

You, like the deceived Eve have just changed the Word of God

If so why are you on this site. We all believe the KJV Bible has no errors

If you believe our Father wants us to HATE our mother and father then okay....but I would ask you to reconsider....

Proverbs 23:22 Hearken unto thy father that begat thee, And despise not thy mother when she is old.

Matthew 15:4 For God commanded, saying, 'Honour thy father and mother:' and, 'He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death.'
 

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