This brings us back to my original question.

Where do you find that the tribulation is 7 years long?
All Scriptural indications is that the tribulation happens in the MIDST of those seven years.

Scripture also states that the antichrist will be revealed before we are raptured (2 Thess. 2:1-3)...

...And that there will be a false peace and safety before we are raptured (I Thess. 5:1-4; Dan 9:27)

...And that the Antichrist is BRUISED under our feet as we are raptured up (Rom. 16:20; Gen 3:15; Rev 13:3)

It is very possible that we might be here for the first part of Daniel's last week.

[Biblestudent]

I think Daniel 9 gives the answer:

Dan 9:24-27

24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
KJV

There is "one week" remaining for Israel ("thy people") and Jerusalem ("thy holy city").

The Body of Christ (the promises for which are revealed in a "mystery", Eph. 3) has no part in this prophecy. It will be raptured before Daniel's 70th week.

Daniel's 70th week is the seven-year tribulation period. "Troublous times" may refer to this. Notice that something happens in "the midst of THE week"; nevertheless, it is "one week". The church has no part in it.

[Luke]

I think we just have a habit of referring to all seven years as the tribulation, when it seems that the actual trials are during the last 3.5 years of the "week".

[Biblestudent]

The term "seven-year tribulation" period is not found in Scripture, just as "rapture" is not found in Scripture; but both terms describe an event.

The "great tribulation" is said to be the last half of the seventieth week. Daniel splits the week in the midst of it, and Matthew seems to describe the first half as the "beginning of sorrows". Thus, we call the whole week as the "tribulation period". The Biblical term is "one week", the first half being the "beginning of sorrows" and the last half called the "great tribulation".

I believe the Body of Christ has no part in any of Daniel's seventy weeks, and most particularly in Daniel's seventieth week. The rapture has to occur before the week, rather than in the midst of the week; or else, there is confusion between God's program for the Church and God's program for Israel.

[peopleoftheway]

Herami

1 Thessalonians 5:9
For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

I get what you are saying about the 3 1/2 years peace, but once again this is nothing to do with the Church. This is to do with Israel. If the Church was to be present during the first half of tribulation when the man of sin will be revealed, the Church would thwart his plans, for we are a particular bunch I think you would agree , I mean when we see someone propagate heresy we get all riled up, you think when the man of sin is revealed we, the Church wont mess up his plans ?. Peace will not be brought to this world without war, without lives lost, without the disappearance of The Church through what I believe the explanation will be are a series of worldwide disasters / wars that bring about the effort for peace.
As for the "seven years" we have to look to Daniel as Biblestudent said

the seventy weeks that have been declared against "thy people", the Jews

Daniel 9:24
Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

The above verse speaks of the time God has given to finish the transgression, to end sin, to bring in everlasting righteousness, God says that "70 weeks" will fulfill all this.
The Hebrew word (heptad) (apologies for using the hebrew, but its only to help with the translation, not change it)translated as week in Daniel 9:24-27 literally means "7" and 70 weeks literally means 70 sevens ,70 times 7

The time period that God speaks of is really 70 sevens of years, or 490 years.
Daniel 9:25
Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
Daniel 9:26
And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

The Messiah will be "cut off" 7 weeks and 62 weeks (69 weeks or 483 days )
after the decree to rebuild Jerusalem 483 years passed from this decree until the time that Christ was crucified. Leaving 7 years to fulfill Daniel 9:24 and for God to finally Judge Israel for their sins. The Great Tribulation

As for that Tribulation.

Daniel 9:27
And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Christ spoke about the abomination of desolation prophesied in Daniel
Matthew 24:15
When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand )

Daniel 9:27
says that the beast will make a covenant for (one week) seven years. In the middle of the week (3 1/2 years) he will break the covenant. Revelation 13 describes how the beast will make an image of himself and Revelation 13:5 gives the Timeline

Revelation 13:5
And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months. (3 1/2 years)

Like George wonderfully demonstrated in his post, the Church will not be present in time of Jacob's trouble.

[Brother Tim]

Sorry, Doxa. I tried!

[peopleoftheway]

Tim, you know the score Brother, once we get started.........

[Jeremy]

I believe we are in the Church Age,Close to the end time of the Gentiles,Signs pointing to the Second Coming,Rapture is Close and is inevitable. The Tribulation(time of Jacobs trouble)Daniels Seventieth week.A ministering of people through 12,000,x12 tribes of Israel,144,000 Jews in which the holy spirit dwells within. Armageddon at the Last half of Tribulation,also known as the Great Tribulation ,second 1/2. We will return with the Lord when he sets up his kindom in Jerusalem on King Davids thrown, and stops armageddon. 75 day interval(still studying)Millenium,Great white throne judgement,eternity.

[peopleoftheway]

For the sake of the thread starter and whom the thread was started for I may add my thoughts "simplified"
I believe in the blessed hope, the Glorious translation of the saints before tribultion to meet our LORD and Saviour in the air, and there shall we be forever with the LORD.
I believe that the Tribulation period will be the beginning of sorrows, a time of supposed peace on earth, The Jewish remnant 12 x 12 000 of the tribes of Israel will turn once again to their LORD and accept Christ and evenagelise like no others have ever done before. satan will reveal himself incarnate in the 2nd half of tribulation, "The Great Tribulation" I cannot even begin to imagine how terrible this time will be "the time of Jacobs trouble". Our LORD will come at the end of tribulation on the clouds with fire "second coming" the Battle of Armageddon,
Genesis 3:15, "And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel."
It will be in the valley of Megiddo, southeast of Mt. Carmel, in the land of Palestine.. Judgement of the nations, The millennium, satan loosed, Great white throne, the second death, lake of fire, New Heavens New Earth AMEN!

Greetings!

This is very interesting…thank you.
I am very interested in the faith and beliefs of the Baptist Church. Particularly, I noticed that Baptists use the Trinity concept to exalt Jesus, not to make HIM less than Who HE is!!!! Furthermore, there is that thing about Eternal Security and other issues that have me at much peace.
So, I thought I would write out some of my thoughts pertaining to my journey and End Time thoughts as well.

Many, many years ago when I was a teenager, I prayed the Salvation Prayer in a Baptist Church. However, I came home to find a family that was much displeased with me and that day my church service days were ended until I left home.

I say that because I believe for a person in America, I have had a unique situation. I was treated like I had lost all intelligence the moment I said I believed in God. (This is in direct contrast to those Americans who were "forced" to go to church. Imagine not being allowed. Sometimes, I find myself crying when I tell some people (and they cry too) how I once sat in some empty pews pretending I was in a church service (a janitor had left a door open to this Baptist church). I do not believe though that I was in violation of disobeying my parents because I knew what I did was not wrong because there was no service. But another incident I decided I was going to go and had a plan. But when I got to the door of another church with a friend I could not go in. If there was one thing I knew about God at that point was that I was to honor my parents. Well, little did I know that just standing at the door, got attention. The pastor! came out and asked me what was going on. And then he told me to go home. You know, he said the best thing for me, because he did not ask me to disobey but he did what was right. I still today appreciate his direction. But that about sums up my church dealings until I moved out of my parents home.

But here is the thing, shortly after I left home God visited me. Because I know on the internet people would just sling mud, call my experiences demonic, it is hard to share on the internet about my Jesus experiences.

But to fast forward, I have been blessed with very special/amazing things that God has done for me in my life.

Suddenly, at my age so many, many years later, I am having a very amazing year where it seems that so much of what I have come to know is being tossed up by God in a way and reassessed and I believe God is bringing me to a place of simply permanent resolve of various things.

Even now as much of this year is over, our church has been studying End Times on Wednesday nights. Our church definitely has a major Pre-Trib emphasis. However, studying about it is something our church is not obsessed about or any such thing, but ironically other things had propped up that make me pause and wonder about all of this.

It has been obvious to me for some time that there are quite a few views out there, from pre-trib, post, mid, pre-terist, etc, etc. But what I really see is that every single person who has a view is getting their view from verses from the Bible. To emphasis, everyone is getting their view from the Bible and supporting their view from the Bible.

This has caused me to ponder on the overview of it all. Jesus gave us prophetic words throughout Scripture, and it will all come to pass, but it is so displayed that no one can quite pull it all together, and I believe the reason is such so that all people will walk by faith as well. It is just like miracles or gifts of the Spirit, we believe or we don’t. So, as far as Jesus’ coming again, we must walk by faith, and we have not been given an exact calendar date, so that we will indeed live each day to the utmost in faith. And there certainly has been a multitude of Christians who have already died and their life on this planet is over.

Furthermore, regarding End Times, many people quote Daniel and Revelation and Matthew for their verses to support their views. But as for me, some years ago, a man on the internet had asked on a spiritual forum about why was John the Baptist the Elijah to come? At the time, I had never pondered or thought of this. As a matter of fact, I had a Bible that actually had a footnote that stated that Jesus really had no need to be baptized. Imagine.

And I have heard preaching about the prophets of old, that they all taught repentance, and so after that posed question, for a short while I thought, well, Elijah also taught repentance. But something did not add up, why was Elijah depicted? That was strange, I thought. It never occurred to me to wonder about that. Several days later, I asked the Lord specifically, Why was Elijah the John the Baptist to come? And to my absolute amazement, God gave me a momentary vision! I saw a picture of Elijah/Servants pouring water on the bull on Mt. Carmel. I stood there amazed because I understood exactly what the Lord showed me, and quite frankly I am too dumb to have ever realized this on my own. But what I did have up to that moment, caused me see that the Lord was showing me the contest that was held by Elijah in 1 Kings 18. And I realized that the Lord was showing me that Jesus was that Sin Offering. And when Jesus was baptized, the Holy Spirit fell on Him and consumed Him, just like what happened with what Elijah did with the pouring water on the bull and God consuming the bull offering. That was a picture of John the Baptist. However, as I stood there in amazement, a question suddenly arose, and I asked the Lord, but Lord did the Pharisees and Sadducees and Chief Rulers “worship Baal”? And instantly, the Lord reminded me of John 8, where Jesus told these people that their father was the devil. And then I understood.
This revelation was the beginning of a lot of understanding.
I began to see how the things that Elijah said and did, were indeed a picture of John the Baptist. Even when John was in prison, I can see a picture of Elijah when he fled to the caves (presumably where Moses met God) and in Elijah’s discouragement, God revealed Himself. And then I see that Elisha was a picture of Jesus.

I say all that to say, not too long ago in Sunday School the discussion was about Moses going through the sea with all the people. The teacher mentioned that this could really be a picture of Jesus delivering His people. I thought that was an interesting remark. And I found that others have heard that parallel too. The next week, we were talking about the golden calf that Aaron had made while Moses was in the mountain getting the Law.
This caught my attention, as I realized if various people believed that the deliverance was a picture of Jesus, what would stop me from analyzing the continuation of that thought.
What if the golden calf represented such things as the early Christian church while the New Testament was being compiled, out came Gnostic teaching and other false teaching, quite a worthless golden calf for sure.

I know I sound outrageous, but currently, I am wondering if the whole thing that followed in the Old Testament is a loose symbolic picture of the Christian church. Another outrageous thought would be if the tribes of the north (that broke off) represents the Protestants. Grin. What if when Jesus was talking to the Samaritan women at the well, really represented a confused bunch of people that spend much of their time pondering the Truth versus living it. Yet, they received Jesus in spite of their stupidity.

And all the way to the destruction of it all (via Babylon and Assyria), and even to Daniel who lost his identity, name, everything, but refused to eat their food. In a sense I know I sound like a nut case, but it just makes me wonder. Could Daniel be a picture of End Times in itself where those must endure to the end and not eat their food? Just thoughts.


On another matter, when I read the Book of Revelation, kind of funny how everyone sees that the rapture will happen before the Tribulation, but when I read it, I see that those who endured to the end in the Tribulation were given white robes. In fact, when I look at the entire Book of Revelation as a whole, those that were given white robes, receive actually the biggest blessings. At least, that is how I see it.

Sometimes I think that we here in America do not really see a fact that for some years there are a multitude of Christians “Dying” for their faith right now. There is a country that even comes to discovered Christian homes, paints a big red “X” on it, then comes in an kills all of them.

Currently, regarding that Proposition 8 video posted on this forum, shows that our churches are loosing their freedom. It appears that churches will be forced to provide gay marriages or loose tax exemption. A good pause to wonder what will Churches do? Centuries ago, Christians would die for much less.

It is clear that we have not seen anything yet as our society crumbles into a country that is rapidly changing the laws versus upholding the law.

There is something that bothers me, however, in a lovely concept of pre-rapture, is that Christians will not be prepared for hard times and enduring to the end, if many believe that they will not have to endure to the end, but will fly away. Perhaps there will be a pre-rapture, but my question is what if we are wrong? Would we fold or endure to the end in hard, vastly hard times?

Which leads me to another thought. Will we fly away? When I look at some of the parables that Jesus said, it seems that the bad is first thrown away, and the good remains. Or if one is taken and the other is left, who is to say that the one left is the blessed one?
Also, the New Jerusalem comes down, not we go up to the new city. This gives me a lot to ponder as well.

We have all been given “physical eyes” in this life where we see this life here, but we are told and believe that angels are very much around us such as Matthew 18:10-14. And to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. I really do believe that this earth the way it is, is temporary and will be rolled up like a carpet one day, but a new earth is coming, yes? But the spiritual realm that we can only see if the Lord shows us, is very, very real. Because the current earth is temporal, I would view the spiritual realm much more real than ours.

Furthermore, who is to say that the tribulation is a curse or a blessing...how can Jesus come if HE does not end the old one?
And what about where it says that the stars will fall from the sky? What happens when the Lord Who holds all things together, lets go?
NEW THINGS FOR SURE!!!


I also tend to be a literalist, so while I see a lot of symbolism, I see a lot in a literal sense as well.

Well, as you can see I am not your average normal Christian. I have been met with a lot of persecution in my life as well, much more than I revealed regarding my earlier years. I have been met with a lot of hostility as well.

God bless you all. I really appreciate your messages.