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  #51  
Old 04-29-2009, 10:02 AM
Tandi
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I was just going to respond with 2 Tim. 3:16....only I would emphasize it this way:

2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

There are passages in Leviticus that are instructive for us in modern times. If someone asked whether God approves of tattoos or beastiality, we would find instruction in Leviticus 18 and 19, for example. Many are getting tattoos today because they think that prohibition is obsolete, only for Israel, etc. And we read news accounts of beastiality today and people wanting to marry their dogs, etc.

How does a Christian know right from wrong without the Law of God to inform their choices in life?

Another Scripture that comes to mind about the overall harmonization of Scripture is from the very book we are discussing here:

Jesus Christ, the same yesterday, today, and forever. (Hebrews 13:8).

Last edited by Tandi; 04-29-2009 at 10:13 AM. Reason: additional Scripture
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  #52  
Old 04-29-2009, 12:08 PM
Bro. Parrish
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Originally Posted by Tandi View Post
How does a Christian know right from wrong without the Law of God to inform their choices in life?
Tandi, the law was designed to drive men to Christ, as you know when we come to Christ, God writes his law in our hearts... we have to be careful doctrinally with the law because in some ways it represents a curse. Christians are not law keepers, if we tried to keep part of the law we would have to keep all of it, the law is a curse as we read here:

"Wherefore the law WAS our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are NO LONGER under a schoolmaster."--Gal. 3:24-25

"For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them. Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree: That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith." --Gal 3:10-14

Here is a quick link to Galations chapter 3 so you can see the entire context, hope this helps:

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...03;&version=9;

And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work. Romans 11:6

Last edited by Bro. Parrish; 04-29-2009 at 12:13 PM.
  #53  
Old 04-29-2009, 03:38 PM
Tandi
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Originally Posted by Bro. Parrish View Post
....Christians are not law keepers, if we tried to keep part of the law we would have to keep all of it, the law is a curse as we read here:

"Wherefore the law WAS our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are NO LONGER under a schoolmaster......
Galatians is a book much misunderstood. It is talking about those trying to be JUSTIFIED by works of the law (especially circumcision and Jewish customs). I am JUSTIFIED by the faithfulness of Jesus Christ who pardoned my sins. I am not trying to earn my salvation in any way, any more than those of you who get baptized after conversion are trying to earn your way to Heaven by this act of obedience.

Galatians goes on to talk about those who practice adultery, fornication, idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, etc.. It says those who practice such things will NOT inherit the Kingdom of God!

"Thou shalt not commit adultery" is a commandment, part of "The Law."

Shall we disregard this commandment, lest a curse come upon us?!

"If we keep one commandment, we must keep them all!"

Another commandment in "The Law" is to love your neighbor as yourself.

Another is to "love God with all your heart, mind, soul, and strength."

Are you saying I should disregard these commandments or I will bring a curse upon myself? Are you disregarding them?

"If you keep one commandment, you've got to keep them all."

It always amazes me when I hear that keeping the commandments of God, which He gave "for our good always," will send us to hell, but "just believing" while rebelling against God's commandments is our ticket to Heaven!

Something is wrong with this teaching.

When I got saved, I was sick of my sins. I did not want to practice sin any longer. I was sick of the bondage of sin. I wanted to know what was right and wrong. And then Church doctrine told me the Ten Commandments were abolished, go ahead and eat swine's flesh, etc. [meanwhile, a huge factory swine farm may be the epicenter of this flu pandemic], disregard Jesus' words in the Sermon on the Mount, etc., etc.

Thank God for Bill Gothard's seminars in the early years of my salvation that got me started in the right direction. Yet Gothard is criticized for putting people under the bondage of "the law" by teaching Biblical principles!

Sorry....this gets me on my soap box.

I recommend studying Galatians from a Hebraic perspective.

This is not to endorse the Messianic Jewish movement. I have plenty of disagreements with these people as well, but I have also appreciated getting rid of "my big fat Greek mindset."

Good article by the way. Just google "My Big Fat Greek Mindset" by Tim Hegg.
  #54  
Old 04-29-2009, 03:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tandi View Post
I was just going to respond with 2 Tim. 3:16....only I would emphasize it this way:

2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

There are passages in Leviticus that are instructive for us in modern times. If someone asked whether God approves of tattoos or beastiality, we would find instruction in Leviticus 18 and 19, for example. Many are getting tattoos today because they think that prohibition is obsolete, only for Israel, etc. And we read news accounts of beastiality today and people wanting to marry their dogs, etc.

How does a Christian know right from wrong without the Law of God to inform their choices in life?

Another Scripture that comes to mind about the overall harmonization of Scripture is from the very book we are discussing here:

Jesus Christ, the same yesterday, today, and forever. (Hebrews 13:8).
The Bible speaks for the Old Testament scriptures was inspired as it is. The Christian can still have a spiritual application on it. He can practically still used them today but not as being a legalist. In Romans 15:4 summed up this way:
Romans 15:4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.

A good question is that how can we know from right and wrong without the Law of God?

"Law" is primarily instruction or teaching. It does not necessarily to mean the Ten Commanments, or the Levitical law of Moses. It speaks of scriptures of the Old Testament as a whole. Jesus himself rightly divided the books of the Old Testament as pertaining to the law of Moses, the Prophets and the Pslams.

Luke 24:44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

Concerning the Word of God or the Old Testament, Psalm 119 gave us the beuaties and its excellences. God's Word is treated under the following designations:
1. Law. Keeping the Word of God is a sure blessing (Psalms 119:1).
2.Testimonies. This indicate the decalaration of God concerning His nature and purpose. (Psalms 119:2).
3. Precepts. relates to the morality of man as enjoined by God (Psalms 119:4)
4. Statutes. These are the civil and religious appointments of the Mosaic law. (Psalms 119:5,8)
5. Commnadments. Authorative orders of God (Psalms 119:6)
6.Judgments. these are the ordinnances of God and it refers to the legal pronouncements of rules and regulations (Psalms 119:7).
7. Word/s.Generally, the word refers to the disclosure of God's will(Psalms 119:9).
8. Way. Can be claimed as synonym for all of the terms (Psalms 119:9)

Psalms 119:1 ALEPH. Blessed are the undefiled in the way, who walk in the law of the LORD.
Psalms 119:2 Blessed are they that keep his testimonies, and that seek him with the whole heart.
Psalms 119:3 They also do no iniquity: they walk in his ways.
Psalms 119:4 Thou hast commanded us to keep thy precepts diligently.
Psalms 119:5 O that my ways were directed to keep thy statutes!
Psalms 119:6 Then shall I not be ashamed, when I have respect unto all thy commandments.
Psalms 119:7 I will praise thee with uprightness of heart, when I shall have learned thy righteous judgments.
Psalms 119:8 I will keep thy statutes: O forsake me not utterly.
Psalms 119:9 BETH. Wherewithal shall a young man cleanse his way? by taking heed thereto according to thy word.

Again the good question is that how can we know right from wrong from the Law of God (scriptures/O.T.)?
Here is a little Study:

How to Keep Clean
Psalms 119:9

Man is made up of three things. He has his will, intellect and emotion. Your will may refers to your choice, disposition, inclination or desire. Your intellect refers to your ability in putting knowledge on your mind. Your emotions may refer to your feelings like anger, fear, love, infatuations. In all of these or in any area, needs to be clean, it is because we are not yet in our glorified state. How to keep clean?


1. Heeding the Word of God wholeheartedly. Psalms 119:9-10. Heed means topay attention, to attend or you object of pursuit. The word of God must be our object of pursuit by means of reading. The Bible said we are to read His word in order to clean our selves. The Bible is said to be a cleansing agent. In John 15:3, our Lord has spoken “Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you”.

Isaiah 34:16 “Seek ye out of the book of the LORD, and read: no one of these shall fail, none shall want her mate: for my mouth it hath commanded, and his spirit it hath gathered them.”
1 Timothy 4:13. Till I come, give attendance to reading, to exhortation, to doctrine.

2. Hiding the Word of God intelligently. Psalms 119:11-12. This is the victorious or the surest way to fight sin and keep clean is to remember the word of God. The value of memorizing the word of God is to keep us doing what is good and by not doing what we know is bad. We may learn the word of God. Let it be our teacher as King David was thus he said “teach me thy statutes”.

Joshua 1:8 “This book of the law shall not depart out of thy mouth; but thou shalt meditate therein day and night, that thou mayest observe to do according to all that is written therein: for
then thou shalt make thy way prosperous, and then thou shalt have good success.”

3. Heralding the Word of God rejoicingly. Psalms 119:13-14. This is to recommend or preach or proclaim the word of God. The bible says “Preach the word” 2 Timothy 4:2. This is what Jesus did, he preach the word. “From that time Jesus began to preach…” Matthew 4:17; 10:7.

4. Honoring the Word of God delightfully. Psalms 119:15-16. God wants to be respected and likewise his words.
Psalms 138:2 “I will worship toward thy holy temple, and praise thy namefor thy lovingkindness and for thy truth: for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name.


God bless...

Last edited by Fredoheaven; 04-29-2009 at 03:58 PM.
  #55  
Old 04-29-2009, 03:44 PM
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Diligent Diligent is offline
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Originally Posted by Tandi View Post
It always amazes me when I hear that keeping the commandments of God, which He gave "for our good always," will send us to hell, but "just believing" while rebelling against God's commandments is our ticket to Heaven!
Then one must ask if you are even saved. What, exactly, are you trusting in for when you are standing in front of God in judgment?

If you mention anything you observe or obey, then you are lost. The only thing that will save you from hell is if God sees his son when he looks at you for judgment of sin. All of the laws you obey are totally and utterly irrelevant when it comes to salvation.
  #56  
Old 04-29-2009, 04:31 PM
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God command us to keep the law, however, not one have perfected it. Only our Lord Jesus Christ did that. Keeping the Law as it was applicable for us today, why not? But for sure not all law is still applicable fo us today. A great example is the Keeping of Sabbath. Ths law was intended for the Israelites only and that the Christian is not to practice it, however it is still part of the Law. Are we then to keep it? Plain simple NO! I guess, this was already discuss in the other thread so I will not be giving verses regarding it but this one below.

Exodus 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Exodus 20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:

The LAW was our schoolmaster. It was written for our learning. It can be practically used if it needs to be. The scriptures do tell us what to do and not to do but I'm pretty sure not all of them are to be applied nor can we do them all. Again, only our Lord did that as he fulfilled them. There's no actually a problem with the LAW, the problem is that we can't keep them ALL. When someone got saved, he was saved not because of the LAW, but because of CHRIST, who fullfilled the LAW.
  #57  
Old 04-29-2009, 04:44 PM
Bro. Parrish
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Originally Posted by Tandi View Post
Another commandment in "The Law" is to love your neighbor as yourself.

Another is to "love God with all your heart, mind, soul, and strength."

Are you saying I should disregard these commandments or I will bring a curse upon myself? Are you disregarding them?
Well with regards to my salvation, yes I have discarded EVERYTHING except the blood of Christ.
I hope you can say the same. My salvation is not related to how I feel about my neighbor.

However there is still a common sense and PRACTICAL SIDE to many of the points of the law, which I think is what you are saying. For example some of the laws in the U.S. we obey today are spin offs of the Ten Commandments, and this is very good.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tandi View Post
"If you keep one commandment, you've got to keep them all."

It always amazes me when I hear that keeping the commandments of God, which He gave "for our good always," will send us to hell, but "just believing" while rebelling against God's commandments is our ticket to Heaven!

Something is wrong with this teaching.
Well that's a little confusing, I don't know that anyone is talking about rebelling being a ticket to Heaven, please let me be clear my friend, it's not keeping the law that sends men to hell, it's the sin of UNBELIEF that condemns men's souls. (John 3:18)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tandi View Post
[I][B] When I got saved, I was sick of my sins. I did not want to practice sin any longer. I was sick of the bondage of sin. I wanted to know what was right and wrong.
Yes, this is good, the law was written in your heart!

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Originally Posted by Tandi View Post
And then Church doctrine told me the Ten Commandments were abolished, go ahead and eat swine's flesh, etc..
Okay, just one point Tandi---the law was not abolished, it was FULFILLED.
Remember what I wrote before, the the law was a schoolmaster to DRIVE MEN TO CHRIST, who said:

"Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil." Matthew 5:17
  #58  
Old 04-29-2009, 04:50 PM
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Fredoheaven Fredoheaven is offline
 
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I agree with you Bro. Parrish, it is not the LAW that sends countless people to HELL but their rejection(UNBELIEF) to the one who fulfilled the LAW that is our Lord Jesus Christ. Good point!!!
  #59  
Old 04-29-2009, 06:17 PM
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Amen brother, we would be in bad shape without the Lord Jesus.
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Old 04-30-2009, 06:50 AM
Tandi
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Originally Posted by Diligent View Post
Then one must ask if you are even saved. What, exactly, are you trusting in for when you are standing in front of God in judgment?

If you mention anything you observe or obey, then you are lost. The only thing that will save you from hell is if God sees his son when he looks at you for judgment of sin. All of the laws you obey are totally and utterly irrelevant when it comes to salvation.
I am fully trusting in the shed blood of Jesus Christ and His faithfulness for my salvation and have full assurance of my salvation, recognizing my shortcomings and eternally grateful for God's pardon (not acquittal) of my sins. Because I love Him, I keep His commandments (Exodus 20:6; Deut. 5:10; John 14:15; John 15:10).

Since I am not a Dispensationalist or a Hyperdispensationalist, I take seriously Jesus’ words in Matthew 28:20 about observing commandments and His words in the Book of Revelation that we are to repent and be overcomers and that our works will be judged.

Quote:
He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son. But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone; which is the second death.......

Blessed are they that do His commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates unto the city. For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie... Revelation 21:7,8; 22:14,15
I dare not “take away” from the words of the Book by calling them “somebody else’s mail.”

Shalom, Tandi

“Grace is not the freedom to do as we please, but the power to do as we ought.” (Bill Gothard)
 

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