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Old 02-02-2008, 07:47 PM
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Default Scout's oath 'is religious discrimination'


The Scout Association has been reported to the equality watchdog for allegedly discriminating against atheists by making them swear an oath to God.

Ever since Lord Baden-Powell founded the 100-year-old organisation, the promise by scouts to do their duty to God and the Queen has been as much a part of their movement as jamborees, woggles and the three-fingered salute.

Now, however, it has become the latest target of secularists when the National Secular Society and the British Humanist Association complained to the Equality and Human Rights Commission.

They are furious that the Scout Association is refusing to scrap the pledge required of every new member, which they said was excluding "a growing number of children without belief".

Members in Britain, where there are nearly half a million scouts, have to promise to "do their best to do their duty to God and to the Queen", to help other people and to keep Scout law.

To accomodate the movement's 28 million members around the world, the words can be modified to encompass non-Christian faiths.

The Scout guidelines state: "The phrase 'to love God' and 'duty to God' implies belief in a supreme being and the acceptance of divine guidance and therefore the word 'God' can be replaced by 'Allah', 'my Dharma' or others as appropriate to suit the faith or religion of the individual concerned."

But the two secular bodies said in a joint letter to Derek Twine, the chief executive of the Scout Association, that the requirement for members to have a faith should now be made optional.

They said that the Association's stance was "completely unacceptable" for an organisation "that is so committed to personal development of young people and that claims to foster mutual understanding between different beliefs, which of course should include those of no belief."

They also criticised it for claiming on its website that it was "inclusive", and called on it to make ambiguously clear that it was a religious organisation. Scouting leaders said that they had no intention of changing the oath drawn up by Lord Baden-Powell, a "muscular Christian" who believed that faith was an essential element in the development of young people.

Stephen Peck, the Association's director of programmes and development, said: "It is fundamental to scouting that young people are helped to understand their spirituality. It is in our lifeblood."

The Equality and Human Rights Commission, which was set up in October and which is headed by Trevor Phillips, said it was committed to a vision of fairness, but it was too early to comment on this case.


Scout Oath (or Promise)

On my honour,
I promise that I will do my best
To do my duty to God and to the Queen,
To help other people
And to keep the Scout Law.
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Old 02-02-2008, 07:48 PM
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I don't know what the problem is, they swear to a generic god.

Old 02-06-2008, 12:04 AM
Lively Stone
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Sister Grace:

Thank you for sharing that. I did not realize you were in the beautiful country of New Zealand until "God and the Queen". In the USA it is "God and country." At one time I was a Scout master and we didn' have this problem. Because of secularism the majority it seem is losing ground to Godless liberals. Just Pray and I know you do that these people get saved before Jesus comes or it will be too late for them.

I spent 3 months in the outback of Western Australia in 1984 prospecting for Gold. I discovered the real Gold is Jesus Christ.

I love you in the Lord.

Bro Danny
Old 02-06-2008, 12:33 AM
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Just curious: how close or similar to Brownies are Scouts? I have various articles and personally learned of New Age garbage that has crept into Brownies, so was wondering if some of the same junk was also into Scouts.
Old 02-06-2008, 01:13 AM
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Thanks for your encouraging post, Danny. You have had an exciting adventure. The saying here about something that passes a test is "good as gold" Like you, I found that Jesus is better than gold. I can't imagine life without Him now. It is so good to be loved, in the Lord and out.

Jerry, I was a Brown Owl years ago in Canada. There was nothing new agey at that time in the teaching. However, I don't think elves and fairies are suitable for Christian girls now anyway.

I have heard same as you but as far as boys go it seems to be a mission to keep the groups free from male predators.

Old 02-06-2008, 09:23 AM
Brother Mike
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Brother Jerry

Not only brownies, but the whole girl scout movement here in the US is riddled with nonsense.

The have pretty much taken God out of the girl scouts. They have partnered with planned parenthood in sex education and go toward the "me" mentality with the older girls.

Now not all troops get this deep into the junk. Our girl's troops are fairly conservative and we keep a close eye on things.

There is an alternative to the girl scouts that is growing, American Heritage Girls. Unfortunatly, groups are hard to come by, especially out west in Kalifornia My wife and I have given some prayerful thought to starting a coucil where we live, but have not felt led in that direction yet. Church and family keep us pretty busy at the moment.

The U.S. boy scouts have, to their credit, kept their moral compass in the right direction with keeping God in their motto and homosexuals and their agenda out of the organization. They have suffered much because of this, but God, I believe, keeps them uplifted.

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