[Diligent]

Originally Posted by Tandi

I am fully trusting in the shed blood of Jesus Christ and His faithfulness for my salvation and have full assurance of my salvation, recognizing my shortcomings and eternally grateful for God's pardon (not acquittal) of my sins. Because I love Him, I keep His commandments (Exodus 20:6; Deut. 5:10; John 14:15; John 15:10).

The last sentence belongs in a new paragraph. I am just trying to get you to be careful about what you tie in to salvation. I don't care if you are a dispensationalist or not -- if you mix your observation of law with Christ's shed blood, then you are missing the boat. When you word it the way you have been you imply there is something more than Christ's work.

Since I am not a Dispensationalist or a Hyperdispensationalist, I take seriously Jesus’ words in Matthew 28:20 about observing commandments and His words in the Book of Revelation that we are to repent and be overcomers and that our works will be judged.

Who says our works won't be judged? What are you implying?

I dare not “take away” from the words of the Book by calling them “somebody else’s mail.”

Phrase it how you like. Have you ever built a big boat? No? You mean those commands were for Noah? Aren't you "taking away" from the words? What about God's commandment to Adam to eat from the tree of life? Do you follow that one? For that matter, did Adam follow it all his life? No? You mean you and Adam had to determine which commandments apply when?

Tandi,
I think you have a healthy respect for the whole Word of God, and I admire that. I also think you will be able to better understand the Bible if you realize and accept that their is a need for dispensational truth and rightly dividing the Word. Hopefully you will see this as you continue your journey with the Christ you love and have trusted for salvation.

No one here is making light of the commandments, but we have to remember that things like the dietary law were never revealed to anyone outside Israel, and there are many in the world of cults and religion who try to apply them today as a "yoke of bondage." So we have to be on guard for this. This happened to the disciples in Jerusalem, when a group of Pharisees tried to persuade the Christians in the Jerusalem church and command them to keep the law of Moses. Finally Peter got up and challenged these legalists by asking,

"Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? But we believe that through the grace of the LORD Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they." Acts 15:10-11

Peter knew the dangers of trying to mix law and grace, and that's probably the reason you are getting some blowback on it here from the members.

As you know Saul of Tarsus was a Pharisee, a man who lived and died by the law, and punished or even killed others who did not. Here is how that same man summed up the law after he met Christ...

Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.

For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law. -- Romans 13:8-10

So we see that Paul like Peter knew the law had a place in the practical and moral world of men and society, but he did not try to mix it with grace, and he wrote this to that point...

And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work. -- Romans 11:6

[tonybones2112]

Originally Posted by Tandi

I was just going to respond with 2 Tim. 3:16....only I would emphasize it this way:

2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

There are passages in Leviticus that are instructive for us in modern times. If someone asked whether God approves of tattoos or beastiality, we would find instruction in Leviticus 18 and 19, for example. Many are getting tattoos today because they think that prohibition is obsolete, only for Israel, etc. And we read news accounts of beastiality today and people wanting to marry their dogs, etc.

How does a Christian know right from wrong without the Law of God to inform their choices in life?

Another Scripture that comes to mind about the overall harmonization of Scripture is from the very book we are discussing here:

Jesus Christ, the same yesterday, today, and forever. (Hebrews 13:8).

Tandi, this verse you quote in Hebrews is the same one the Pentecostals use to try and validate the error of tongues, signs, and wonders as being for today. Jesus is the Word of God, He is God, the physical manifestation of God the Father and the Holy Ghost. His earthly ministry however was to Israel. He was not always the same, he was a baby who needed His mothers care. He was a child, a young man, then a carpenter up to the last 3 years before the crucifixion. He was dead and was resurrected and is alive now at the right hand of the Father. But He has dealt with different people in different ways at different times. That's apparent in the Scripture. He was rejected of Israel, and returning to the Law will crucify Him afresh and make that sacrifice of none effect. He speaks now to us through Paul and we cannot return to the Law, sabbath keeping, ordinances, and dead works that were merely a TYPE of Christ, a picture of Him, as the book of Hebrews relates. The book of Hebrews is NOT about Hebrews, it is about Jesus Christ:

Luke 9:59 And he said unto another, Follow me. But he said, Lord, suffer me first to go and bury my father.
60 Jesus said unto him, Let the dead bury their dead: but go thou and preach the kingdom of God.
61 And another also said, Lord, I will follow thee; but let me first go bid them farewell, which are at home at my house.
62 And Jesus said unto him, No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God.

1Co 13:9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
1Co 13:10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

Christ is the end of the Law for me.

Does a person who is covered in tattoos have a chance of being saved? We are all born in an unregenerate state, God is not a respecter of persons, and died and was raised from the dead once for ALL. That includes people with tattoos. That includes people who had pork for supper and leftovers for breakfast, as I did today and last night.

There are many doctrines in the OT and we are instructed to search for these types, similitudes and precepts. But we walk not in the Law, we walk by faith and not in the sight of the works of the Law, but in the Grace of God.

Grace and peace to you sister.

Tony

[tonybones2112]

Originally Posted by Tandi

Tony, I don't know where to begin in answering you. It would not be a productive discussion. It would take too long to explain where I am coming from and how I am not "mixing" law and grace, etc. When you do not believe Jesus' words in the Sermon on the Mount are for us today, we share no common ground to discuss doctrine.

Tandi, once again, please be aware of my tone, my mood, and try and read my compassion and desire for you to understand some day what I and these others have given you to study. You know I am not being curt, short, or in any way impatient with you. That said, please be assured you do not have to answer to me for anything. what did I say to you in a previous message? Take your time, you can't swallow all this whole, you have to have days, maybe months, to digest what we have said to you. Look, This is a pretty dogmatic thing to say, but Tandi, my sister, you will go to "Christian colleges" and "seminaries" for the next 50 years and never get the education you will get from us in this forum. Look at the knowledge of those like George and Brother Parrish and Brandon and all the rest. These people are Baptists, I am not a Baptist, yet they, like you, are my brothers and sisters. We do not jump in front of each other to give you 50 contradictory answers as many do, but we are all in agreement, we all worship the Lord Jesus Christ, and the Father and Holy Spirit receive that worship through Him. When I say something to you, then brother Parrish says something to you, then Brandon, we are standing next to each other and taking our turn in speaking to you. This is education sister, please save this whole thread and study it and don't worry about ansering to anyone but God. Show thyself approved unto Him. Let us all be patient in answer you, and please be patient with us.

[Paul does not contradict Jesus! Rightly dividing means rightly interpreting so that the Scriptures are in harmony with one another. This is the life work of my friend who has the questions about Hebrews, harmonizing the Scriptures. He has been able to harmonize Paul's epistles, but not Hebrews (as yet).]

All he has to do is understand what is Time Past, what is But Now, and what is Ages To Come, from Ephesians 3 and in rightly dividing Paul, where did I say Ephesians was.

Correction.

I believe the Sermon On The Mount as much as anyone, as much as the Man who spoke it, yet it is not doctrine for me or you. dispensationally, the Sermon On The Mount is the Constitution for the Millennium.

[I hope I am not confusing people with references to my TWO friends. One is a believer, the other is struggling with doubt. God loves them both and is working in their lives! Some of the comments here have been quite judgmental.]

Matthew 7:1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
1Co 6:2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?
6:3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?

John 7:24 Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

Tandi, the lost world always uses Matthew 7:1 as a rock to throw back at us, never having read the Scriptures, they never read Matthew 7:2. We are commanded by Paul, who Christ commanded to tell us, that it's part of our duty as Christian soldiers to judge, we are commanded to judge all things. We are given a method and manner of judgement. Our judgment is not based on ourselves, our opinions, but based on the Scripture. If someone is offended or feels judged, they should study the judgment and take it to the Scriptures in prayer to see if it is true. But judgment, yes, we judge, have judged, do now judge, and always will judge. It is our duty. It is your duty sister.


[I wish we could discuss the specific questions I brought up in Hebrews on this thread. There are plenty of other threads to discuss doctrinal disputes, salvation, etc.]

What is the first and primary reason the Scriptures exist? Doctrine. You friend's factual errors are not factual errors, but a doctrinal dispute. He does not believe God preserved His words and is looking at the traditions of men to determine if a certain book that most opposes the "church" that is actually Satan's church is canonical, and is not trusting that God's oracles, the Jews, who said yes, this book is canonical.

Pr 14:12 There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.
Pr 16:25 There is a way that seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.

We discussed in a previous message that I want you to save and study, I want you to save this whole thread, not for me, for yourself. We discussed the "Mass" is the center of Roman Catholicism, the daily continuous sacrifice of the Lord Jesus Christ, and these verses that teach against the "mass", have been torn out of Vaticanus, the "oldest and best manuscript".

Heb 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

Heb 10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

Do you know I Peter is also one of the most contested books in the NT canon? Here's why:

1Pe 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

I know you want to just go back and discuss your friend's objections because you are confused and overwhel;med with the information you've been given. Sister, i say this with a smile, all these messages I send you, I don't get paid a dime for them. What do I get out of it? I get no payment, my Commanding Officer has given me this duty. I've already been paid, what are my wages?

My salvation and His company through all eternity. To spend all eternity with Him. I have limited online time due to my wife's illness and the other obligations I have online, they have to wait their turn. God told Philip to go join the eunuch in the chariot in Acts 8, He has told me to talk to Tandi, to anser Tandi, to give her Scripture to lead her into the correct understanding of His words.

You said dispensationalism is an "indoctrination". Sister Tandi, my sister in Christ, dispensational teachings of Paul is a CURE for "indoctrination" and will free you from ALL FORMS of indoctrination.

Tandi, I am speaking softly and underlining and italisizing salien points for you to be aware of, just in that direct manner you said you liked. Again, please receive it in and with patience and for you, copy this whole thread and study it. It's our teaching, our training, given to you freely, as we give it freely because we received it freely.

Grace and peace to you sister.

Tony

Brethren,

The conversation on this thread has bolstered my belief that Hebrews belongs in the canon of Scripture. “Jesus Christ, the same yesterday, today, and forever” is the refutation of Dispensationalism! For those of you who believe God has different standards for different dispensations, what do you do with this verse??

Years ago, I asked the LORD in prayer about the canon of Scripture. “How do we know there are 66 books and that we have the right ones?” I asked. I believe He directed me to notice that there are 66 chapters in Isaiah and that there seems to be a significant change of tone between the 39th and 40th chapters, just like the “Old Testament” with 39 books and the “New Testament” with 27 books. Then I noticed that verses in the books of the NT can be matched up with verses in the last 27 chapters of Isaiah, providing another intrinsic witness to the harmony of all Scripture. Consider these parallels:

Matt: 3:3 .....The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.

Isaiah 40:3 The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God.

Revelation 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth.....

Isaiah 66:22 For as the new heavens and the new earth........

I seem to remember matching all of the NT books up with a corresponding verse in Isaiah....except Hebrews....which gave me pause.

Recently, however, I happened to open my Bible to Isaiah 49, and lo and behold there was a verse that corresponded with Hebrews! And a very significant one....probably the most famous and beloved verse in Hebrews, Hebrews 4:12!

Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is...........sharper than any twoedged sword.....

Isaiah 49:2 And he hath made my mouth like a sharp sword.......

Hmmm....... 49 is 4+9 = 13, same number of chapters as in Hebrews! : )

Just a coincidence? Or are there intricately woven embedded clues in Scripture that testify to its inspiration? It all begins to fit together like a jigsaw puzzle, a real Bible code.

Thank you all for helping me resolve doubts about Hebrews even if I do not have all the answers about seeming discrepancies....yet. I’m still working on it. : )

And, by the way, “there remaineth a keeping of Sabbath to the people of God” according to Hebrews 4:9. God preserved it very clearly in the Greek with the word “sabbatismos.” KJV translators were probably constrained from translating it too literally and chose the English word “rest” but the meaning is preserved in the underlying text.

A topic for another day....if open to discussion.

Shabbat Shalom,

Tandi the Harmonizer

Thank you for a label I can wear, George! Now if only I can find fellow Harmonizers to be in like-minded fellowship with. Any here?

More after Shabbat.....during which time I will carefully and prayerfully study all of these recent posts. Thank you all once again for your input.

[peopleoftheway]

Just a coincidence? Or are there intricately woven embedded clues in Scripture that testify to its inspiration? It all begins to fit together like a jigsaw puzzle, a real Bible code.

Sister we don't need to look for "hidden codes" to know the inspiration, the inspiration is there for all to see, not hidden. There are enough of the words of God in the Bible that will last us a lifetime of study never mind looking for hidden codes.

Matthew 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

looking for "codes" in the Bible leads down the Dan Brown "Davinci code" and that new abomination of a movie of his with Tom Hanks, angels and demons

And, by the way, “there remaineth a keeping of Sabbath to the people of God” according to Hebrews 4:9. God preserved it very clearly in the Greek with the word “sabbatismos.” KJV translators were probably constrained from translating it too literally and chose the English word “rest” but the meaning is preserved in the underlying text.

You aren't suggesting that we should be keeping the Sabbath are you? For When Christ died on the cross those ceremonial laws were nailed to the cross with him!

Colossians 2:14-16 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it. Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

In addition if I may, do you realise that you have just corrected the word of God by going back to the greek to insert a word that isn't there in the Preserved English of the KJB?

[Fredoheaven]

Tandi, Good day! You said:

And, by the way, “there remaineth a keeping of Sabbath to the people of God” according to Hebrews 4:9. God preserved it very clearly in the Greek with the word “sabbatismos.” KJV translators were probably constrained from translating it too literally and chose the English word “rest” but the meaning is preserved in the underlying text.

Just to clarify a matter, God did not preserved his words in the Greek but in English. The New Testament was written in Greek language and were preserved to us this day in English. You clearly corrected the english word "rest" as "Sabbath" and gave a wrong impression to the KJV translators. Scholars per se, The King James Scholars were not to be equated to any of the modernist Scholar of today. The book I would recommend and I know there are others is : An Understandable History of the Bible by Samuel C. Gipp. Chapter Nine deals with the Authorized Version and its translators, like Lancellot Andrews,John Overall,William Beldwell et.al.

Now as per context, this is impossible to be translated as you like since this violated the true meaning of the Sabbath. Sabbath means cessation of work as God ceased in His own works. If sabbath is meant here then why labor? as indicated in v11.

Hebrews 4:9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
Hebrews 4:10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
Hebrews 4:11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

Originally Posted by Tandi

Brethren,

The conversation on this thread has bolstered my belief that Hebrews belongs in the canon of Scripture.

Very good and I'm glad you feel that way!

Just a coincidence? Or are there intricately woven embedded clues in Scripture that testify to its inspiration? It all begins to fit together like a jigsaw puzzle, a real Bible code.

Hmm, yes, well there have been entire books written on the subject of Bible codes, I think it's possible there may be something to at least some of that, however the problem is some people get carried away with it (like Dan Brown as mentioned by POTW) and spend all their time looking for and promoting "secret codes" and they allow that to overshadow the simple study of the Bible, so we don't want to see that happen as I'm sure you can understand.

Setting aside the code thing, I want to make one more point here; I do agree with you 100% that the words and passages in King James Bible fit together like a puzzle, this is a GREAT TRUTH, I know this for a fact because I have written tons of cross references in my Bible over the years. I think this is one of the great keys to understanding the Bible, and I think God only reveals this to people who open His Book with a sense of humility and respect, comparing scripture with scripture EXACTLY AS IT IS WRITTEN in the KJV, without trying to change the text. There are many Christians who never see some of the deep truth in God's Word, simply because they are too busy following after some "Bible corrector" or "expert in the greek manuscripts." As I wrote way back in post no. 19, our KJV is very unique and different from every other book in existence, and I think God has a special blessing for those who treat it that way!

Thank you all for helping me resolve doubts about Hebrews even if I do not have all the answers about seeming discrepancies....yet. I’m still working on it. : )

You're welcome Tandi, and thank you for asking some very good questions! We are ALL still working on the truths of God's Word, keep asking those questions and I am confident when you seek you will find the answers. (Luke 11:9)

[tonybones2112]

Originally Posted by Tandi

Brethren,

The conversation on this thread has bolstered my belief that Hebrews belongs in the canon of Scripture. “Jesus Christ, the same yesterday, today, and forever” is the refutation of Dispensationalism! For those of you who believe God has different standards for different dispensations, what do you do with this verse??

You're cherry picking sister, just like every Church Of Christ(I was raised in the the Church of Christ)member, SDA, and Pentecostal. What I am going to do with the verse is put it in context, which you refuse to do:

Hebrews 13:5 Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.
6 So that we may boldly say, The Lord is my helper, and I will not fear what man shall do unto me.
7 Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation.

The end of that conversation?

8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

9 Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines. For it is a good thing that the heart be established with grace; not with meats, which have not profited them that have been occupied therein.
10 We have an altar, whereof they have no right to eat which serve the tabernacle.
11 For the bodies of those beasts, whose blood is brought into the sanctuary by the high priest for sin, are burned without the camp.
12 Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people with his own blood, suffered without the gate.
13 Let us go forth therefore unto him without the camp, bearing his reproach.
14 For here have we no continuing city, but we seek one to come.

Sister, you'll someday understand the messages we gave you, right now you have place yourself back in the camp with those who have no right to eat thereof.

Heb 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

What do I do with this verse? As I demonstrated, I just put it into context and not cherry-picked it to put myself or anyone else back under the Law. As much as you abhor dispensational teaching, I'd suggest then that you cancel the order on Dr. Ruckman's HEBREWS commentary, it's my favorite, and if you think I am hyperdispensational, you ain't seen nothin' yet.

Heb 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

Heb. 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

Heb 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

1Co 9:17 For if I do this thing willingly, I have a reward: but if against my will, a dispensation of the gospel is committed unto me.
Eph 1:10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:
Eph 3:2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you–ward:
Col 1:25 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;

All Scripture is given for doctrine, and Peter addresses the doctrinal error of Lawkeepers and Sabbatarians wresting Paul to try and mix Law and Grace, and like my speech, is rather direct and sobering:

2Pe 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

Heb 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

Eph 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved; )
6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.

Jesus Christ the same, in times past, but now, and in ages to come, I agree.

Eph. 3:1 For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,
2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you–ward:
3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:
7 Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.
8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;
9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

Sister, I'm going to conclude by saying with grace that you have a very serious problem at this point. You may think the shaloms and shabbhats are cute, at worst you may be boasting of your works in them, but at this point you are preaching another Jesus we have not heard nor received. Too direct, or not direct enough? Not direct enough apparently, as you have not studied to show yourself approved unto God.

Yet.

But I have faith through Christ which is the Light of the world that you will. We were all once as you are, as we are you will be, though Him sister.

Another thing I need to point out to you is what you, Ellen White, Herbert W. Armstrong, and all the orthodox Jews here in Dayton missed: God never commanded any Sabbath to be held nor does He recognize any held outside the Holy Land. The sabbath of Jerusalem was over before yours ever began.

Grace and peace Tandi,

Tony

Originally Posted by peopleoftheway

In addition if I may, do you realise that you have just corrected the word of God by going back to the greek to insert a word that isn't there in the Preserved English of the KJB?

Also, Fredoheaven said:

Just to clarify a matter, God did not preserved his words in the Greek but in English. The New Testament was written in Greek language and were preserved to us this day in English. You clearly corrected the english word "rest" as "Sabbath" and gave a wrong impression to the KJV translators.

Posting on this forum is like stepping into a minefield. If words are not phrased a certain way, or paragraph breaks don't come at the right time, the sharks circle and heresy hunting begins in earnest. I do not feel comfortable asking my questions. I would have liked to discuss the word sabbatismos and how it only appears once, while all the other words translated "rest" are a different Greek word, but apparently discussing the inspired Greek text is close to heretical?! Is this statement of faith from Emmanuel Baptist Theological Seminary heretical?

We believe that the Hebrew and Greek manuscripts which underlie the King James Version (the Masoretic text of the Old Testament and the Textus Receptus of the New Testament) are the preserved words of God. Furthermore, we believe that the King James Version of the Bible is God's preserved word in English.

http://www.emmanuel-newington.org/seminary/doctrine.php

Speaking of heretical, Dr. Ruckman considers hyperdispensationalism a heresy as bad as Calvinism, SDA, or any other:

http://www.angelfire.com/nt/books/hy...tionalism.html

So all of us here are heretics in someone else's view no matter what we believe. If all we are going to do is label one another heretics and put one another in a dismissive category or box, we are not going to glean what nuggets we can from one another and enjoy some semblance of fellowship.

Another word in Hebrews I would like to discuss is parapiptos in Hebrews 6:6.........I find it interesting that this is not the Greek word for apostasy as found elsewhere. In fact, parapiptos is only found here. What exactly does it mean? Hebrews uses some unusual words and I wonder why.

Can this be safely explored and discussed here? Or should I take my questions to another forum?

I do not wish to offend or be out of order,

Peace, (apparently shalom is not a good word here either?)

Tandi