[peopleoftheway]

Originally Posted by pbiwolski

Allow me to quote James Knox in his new book The Law and Rightly Dividing The Word Reconsidered (pages 61-62),

"In a desperate attempt to cling to the law, many ministers and some denominations have tried to divide the law into sections or divisions. While we cannot list all the many ways their arguments are phrased, one example will suffice.

"We are told that the law of the Lord is the ten commandments and that the law of Moses includes the ordinances, offerings, feast days, and the dietary laws, etc. They say that Jesus' finished work did not include the ten commandments but that only the law of Moses was fulfilled at the cross.

The easiest way to put this error to bed is to show that the terms are used interchangeably by the Holy Spirit. Luke 2:22-24 says, And when the days of her purification according to the LAW OF MOSES were accomplished, they brought him to Jerusalem, to present him to the Lord; (As it is written in the LAW OF THE LORD, Every male that openeth the womb shall be called holy to the Lord;) And to offer a sacrifice according to that which is said in the LAW OF THE LORD...

"Notice in the passage that Mary is said to have taken the baby Jesus to the temple to present Him to the Lord, in obedience to the LAW OF THE LORD and to offer a sacrifice according to the LAW OF THE LORD. Such a requirement is not found in the ten commandments but in the (so called) law of Moses. Again we read: And when they had performed all things according to the LAW OF THE LORD, they returned into Galilee... (Luke 2:39).

"One may find this same argument stated as, 'Jesus died to save us from the ceremonial law but we are still under the moral law.' The scriptures studed in this section show that such a position cannot be supported by the word of God.

"The believer is not under the law but under grace (Romans 6:14). We are delivered from the law (Romans 7:6), free from the law (Romans 8:2), and dead to the law (Galatians 2:19). Praise the Lord!"

Amen! Yes of course you are absolutely right, we are dead to the law.
My Statement>

"Gods moral laws are to be kept, but the 1 ceremonial law was nailed to the Lords cross."

I probably could have worded that statement better

I Know that I am to have no other gods before him
I know that I should not make graven images of, or bow down to, other gods.
I know I shouldn't take the Lords name in vain
I know that I should honour my father and my mother
I know not to commit adultery
I know not to steal
I know not to Kill
I know not to bear false witness against my neighbour
I know not to covet my neighbour's house / wife / possessions

I realise that these commandments are our moral guideline and that we are not UNDER the law in the sense that breaking these commandments will result in the same punishment to those who where in time past UNDER the law, ie Old Testament Israel
Example in Exodus I stated in an above post

Exodus 31:15 Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death."

[larryb]

The fact that the moral law is still in place has nothing to do with being saved by the law.

We are saved by the grace of God through faith in Jesus Christ...not by keeping the law.

But the law is something that a believer strives to keep out of a deep love of God, not something to obtain the love of God...rather to show God our love to Him.

[larryb]

I notice that there are folks who are quoting men to make their point.

When i quote men to make a point i am criticized for it...i wonder if there will be any criticism leveled at the quotes of men from the opposing side?

[JOHN G]

Gal 3:18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.
Gal 3:19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.
Gal 3:20 Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.
Gal 3:21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.
Gal 3:22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
Gal 3:23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
Gal 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
Gal 3:25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
Gal 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.



Gal 3:3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

[Cloudwalker]

Originally Posted by larryb

I notice that there are folks who are quoting men to make their point.

When i quote men to make a point i am criticized for it...i wonder if there will be any criticism leveled at the quotes of men from the opposing side?

Larry, with all due respect...that's ALL you Calvinists do is quote MEN...LOL!

I mean, take a look at your signature for the love of God, it's Martin Luther!

I appreciate what George has done here, the articles he has written but I'm certainly not going to be quoting him in my signature anytime soon, I can assure you.

[chette777]

Consider these scripture testimony of the book of Revelation as to it being prophecy

Rev 1:3 ¶ Blessed [is] he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time [is] at hand.

These are the last days and they have been for the last 2000 years. none of which has taken place yet.

Rev 11:6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.

the days of their prophecy has yet to take place

Rev 22:7 Behold, I come quickly: blessed [is] he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book. Rev 22:10 And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand.

the same words were used in Rev1:3 but none of what is in the book of Rev has taken place nor has the Lord "come quickly"

Rev 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

you have added to the Words of Paul by saying his letters teach men to obey the ten commandments

Rev 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and [from] the things which are written in this book.

of course with you Calvinistic view you don't think you could have your name removed from the book of Life for adding to Paul's letter that he taught men to keep the Ten commandments.

maybe you for got this:

Acts 15:24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment: You will notice that keep the law is separated from the ceremonial law of circumcision.
25 It seemed good unto us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men unto you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul,
26 Men that have hazarded their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.
27 We have sent therefore Judas and Silas, who shall also tell you the same things by mouth.
28 For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things; NO ten commandments were laid upon believers.
29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.


please be careful of your personal tone in your responses some may take offense. Religion is a man made thing to honor men like Presbyterian Religion, Lutheran Religion and Roman Catholic Religion all are unbiblical full of ceremony and pomp. but God is Spirit and he wants us to worship him in Spirit and Truth not be religious. It is not the outward show of religion that God looks at. it is the heart.

For my Spiritual freedom which was given me in Christ, He suffered and paid the cost with his Life, I have suffered many hardships for his name sake, But I count it all loss to know Christ and Him Crucified that I might give him all the glory and that is worth more than any religion could ever give.

[George]

larryb said in his Post #32:

"Part of the Gospel that you and I hear is the blessing of the nations. Prior to Christ Israel was God's instrument of salvation, now it is the world-wide Church...into all nations. Satan has been bound precisely for that reason - that he should not deceive the nations any more..."

And then Larry quotes Revelation 20:2-3 to support his "belief":

Rev 20:2-3
And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

Aloha all,

I do not mean to "pile-on" poor Larry, since he has left us, but IF "Satan has been bound" (the Bible says for "a thousand years") - just exactly WHEN was he "bound"? And IF he is "bound" WHO (in the world) is causing all of the havoc, chaos, and confusion (i.e. deceit) in our present world?

I can understand how some of the Reformers might have believed that the church was bringing in the "kingdom" - what with the ouster of Roman Catholicism in much of Europe and England and with the world wide Missionary endeavor that was taking place then. But HOW can someone who has lived in the 20th. Century or now in the 21st. Century possibly believe that "Satan has been bound" with all of the EVIL PHYSICAL EVIDENCE to the contrary staring him in the face?

1 Timothy 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

2 Timothy 3:1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

2 Thessalonians 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

WHERE is the "evidence" that the church is bringing in the "kingdom" today - when all around us all that we see is APOSTASY?

[Luke]

Originally Posted by larryb

The fact that the moral law is still in place has nothing to do with being saved by the law.

We are saved by the grace of God through faith in Jesus Christ...not by keeping the law.

But the law is something that a believer strives to keep out of a deep love of God, not something to obtain the love of God...rather to show God our love to Him.

The moral law is not in place. This is seventh day adventist teaching that originated in the reformed church which came out of Rome.

There is only one law in place. The law of liberty in Christ. We are not "free to keep the law" we are "free to let Christ be our life!". We look to him. We let ourselves be taken away by His holiness and beauty. The righteousness of the law is fulfilled in Him. His life in us will produce fruits that will last forever.

"For sin shall not have dominion over you for Ye are not under law, but under grace!"


Do you want to live a holy life? GET RID OF THE LAW! The law is the ministration of SIN and DEATH!

How do we live?

Galatians 2:20

Gal 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
Gal 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

LAW has no part in a Christians life. The Christians life is CHRIST'S life in us (Col 3:4).

[Jassy]

Originally Posted by Luke

The moral law is not in place. This is seventh day adventist teaching that originated in the reformed church which came out of Rome.

There is only one law in place. The law of liberty in Christ. We are not "free to keep the law" we are "free to let Christ be our life!". We look to him. We let ourselves be taken away by His holiness and beauty. The righteousness of the law is fulfilled in Him. His life in us will produce fruits that will last forever.

"For sin shall not have dominion over you for Ye are not under law, but under grace!"


Do you want to live a holy life? GET RID OF THE LAW! The law is the ministration of SIN and DEATH!

How do we live?

Galatians 2:20

Gal 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
Gal 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

LAW has no part in a Christians life. The Christians life is CHRIST'S life in us (Col 3:4).

Brother Luke!!

[Luke]

Larryb, seven times in that chapter of Revelation it mentions 1000 years. Do you take that literally? I will assume you don't.. but for what reason?

If you do take it literally, then the time that the thousand years began could only be the reformation, which means we have about 500 more years until Christ returns.

EDIT: I am addressing Larryb's reformed amillennial theology. I do not believe Christ will come in 500 years, but much much sooner.