[chette777]

It is not a statement of arrogance at all. it is one that needs to be understood if someone has accepted a Gospel that is not the gospel of grace they are not saved it is that simple. we have seen men already claim that the gospel as seen in Acts 2-7 is the same as today's. if they believed the gospel of Acts 2 then they are not saved.

so it is only one of pointing out factual truths. if the wrong gospel is preach like repent and be baptized and people follow that, Fred, they are not saved people.

Originally Posted by chette777

very funny BroP but guess what read Ruckman's commentary on Acts he agrees with what I have stated so don't be so quick to post his drawings until you have read His materials. I have Acts and I know what Ruckman believes and teaches

Brother, I think there are at least TWO or THREE topics (maybe more) that are running like wild horses on this thread.

The topic is "WATER BAPTISM, IS IT FOR TODAY," and I have tried very hard to STAY ON TOPIC for the entire thread. As far as I can tell Chette, you and I are in AGREEMENT that water baptism is for today. As far as what Ruckman believes on WATER BAPTISM, I already posted the link so THERE IS NO GUESS WORK, everyone can see for themselves EXACTLY what Ruckman believes and he clearly believes that WATER BAPTISM IS FOR TODAY. He also considers the ERROR that believer's baptism is "UNSCRIPTURAL" or "JEWISH LAW" to be part of the "FUNDAMENTAL HERESY" of Hyperdispensationalism. Anyone who doubts that can go back and read his entire article which I linked.

As we have seen, there are always going to be VARYING VIEWS on dispensation as it relates to the book of Acts, etc., and that is NEVER gong to be resolved on this thread. Even the Hypers themselves don't all agree on their various views! So, I politely suggest anyone who wants to to "chop chop chop" up the simple Gospel of Jesus Christ into a dozen other gospels, and discuss rabbit trails and "every wind of doctrine" they should go and start a another thread on those things. I hope this reasonable and I rejoice that we can at least agree on the topic at hand. May God bless each of you as you seek His wisdom on this issue...

[chette777]

Actually it is part of the Topic because there are Baptism for Peters Gospel and the Believers baptism we practice under Grace. and in order to understand which Baptism is to understand which Gospel is being preached.

in essence if you preach the gospel of the Kingdom as Peter did, which is not for today neither is the Baptism in the name of Jesus for the remissions of sins.

If you preach the Gospel of Grace as Paul did, then you have a different Baptism which are two, one spiritual never happened before, and two you have the one Paul practice which is what we truly label believers Baptism and it is nothing like Matt 28:19 or Acts 2:38 or Acts 3:19 or Acts 8 with the Eunuch. it is not that they believed it is WHAT THEY BELIEVE. and it wasn't death burial and resurrection for the forgiveness of the sins of individual men as Paul teaches.

though these two baptism are similar in that they are water and full immersions that is where they halt at being similar. their effects and purposes are different. and we would need to clarify which water baptism is for today John's or the one that Paul practice but gave no instruction?

Ruckman believes in water baptism as far as it is our Identification with Christ. He does not agree that it is for the remissions of sins as you seem to imply when you call Acts 2:38 a believers Baptism. and he does not believe that Acts 2 teaches the Gospel of Grace as you say it does.

and once again I am not a hyper dispensationist please stop putting me in that camp.

I responded to your use of Ruckman's picture/drawing because he essentially agrees with my view and Georges view on Act2-7 we are not chopping it up as you implied. in fact using it under that context you are saying Ruckman chops up the scriptures as well.

[chette777]

Winman,

when is the times of refreshing?

IN context of Acts 3:18 you better put these thing into context

Ac 3:20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.


When shall he send Jesus?

When is the times of restitution of all things?

It is the Millennial Kingdom at the end of the Great tribulation. this put the context is not for today

Originally Posted by chette777

and once again I am not a hyper dispensationist please stop putting me in that camp...

EH??? Funny, I don't recall putting you in that camp. In fact I made a point to remind someone you were NOT in that camp (see post no. 152) and call out where we agree, do you see that or do you prefer to only focus on the negative aspects of everything...

Whatever. Let's face it; if any one is in a "camp" it's because they pitched their own tent and put themselves there, no one else did it for them.

[Biblestudent]

Originally Posted by chette777

By the way I am not a Baptist. I am associated actually with Calvary Chapel. and you wont find many like me in their organization (there are a few)

Why?
you're one of a kind, bro!

[Biblestudent]

Originally Posted by tonybones2112

My friend, I'd like to see the Scripture for this, sicne there is only one baptism efficacious in the Body of Christ today and I don't see a drop of water in it.

Eph 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

1Co 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

I'm familiar with multiple choice baptisms, as the Church Of Christ I came out of teaches when we go under the water:

1. We come into contact by the Spirit with Christ's Blood while under.
2. We are made partakers of Christ's death while under water.

I never figgered then why they pulled us out, seems holding you under would be the way to come into contact with death.

I'm honestly interested in your position, please procede.

Grace and peace

Tony

I can't respond to the posts as often as I wanted to do -- I moved to my new home -- no computer, no internet connection.

But if you will, please, go to this thread I started, this may show you my position: http://av1611.com/forums/showthread.php?t=647


Concerning the two points you gave above, I've thought about it. I think you missed Romans 6, Colossians 2, and Ephesians 2.

Romans 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

Colossians 2:12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

I believe Paul's WATER Baptism (and he DID BAPTIZE and gave no commandment to stop it) is a picture of the BAPTIST BY ONE SPIRIT INTO THE BODY OF CHRIST.

1. We are CRUCIFIED with Christ. (Standing)
2. We are BURIED with Christ. (Under water)
3. We are RISEN with Christ. (Standing up again.)

[chette777]

BP,
My Bad I musta misread it.

[chette777]

Originally Posted by Biblestudent

Why?
you're one of a kind, bro!

well anyone who is a Bible believer will come to be close to Baptist anyway. I did attend a Baptist Bible college. My doctrinal stand is very much like the baptist

[Biblestudent]

Originally Posted by chette777

well anyone who is a Bible believer will come to be close to Baptist anyway. I did attend a Baptist Bible college. My doctrinal stand is very much like the baptist

I'm not a "die-hard" Baptist, but you're right; "a Bible believer will come to be close to Baptist".