[Diligent]

Originally Posted by grace to me

how can all the world have an opportunity if we are chosen before the foundation of the world ,

Who was chosen before the foundation of the world?

Ephesians 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

Ephesians 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

...

Ephesians 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

God has predesitinated that those who trust in Christ would be adopted into his family. God has chosen that those who trust and believe would then be sealed with the holy Spirit of promise.

The predestination is that those who believe are to be saved. The choice God has made is the plan of salvation.

This is who the elect are: believers. This election is not "unconditional" -- as Paul says, it is conditioned upon us first believing.

and Before jacob and esau were born God loved one and hated another not having done any good or evil ?

Foreknowledge. Of course God knew that Esau would sell out his birthright.

if we all had the opportunity to be saved by our belief wouldn't that be by the righteousness of two ?
jim

No. Our belief is not righteousness of us. God imputes righteousness to believers:

Romans 4:22-24 And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness. Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him; But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;

The dichotomy that you are alluding to simply does not exist, because the Bible states that our belief is not of itself righteousness; our belief is the condition of God's imputation of righteousness.

Diligent....good job!

if we all had the opportunity to be saved by our belief wouldn't that be by the righteousness of two ?
jim
sorry, ive got to quit working this overtime , what i meant was obedience of two. vs.19
you would have the obedience of Christ and the obedience of the sinner.


Rom.5:17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one ; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one , Jesus Christ.)
18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

[Diligent]

Originally Posted by grace to me

sorry, ive got to quit working this overtime , what i meant was obedience of two. vs.19
you would have the obedience of Christ and the obedience of the sinner.

I could not locate a passage that equates belief with a work of obedience. Again, Calvinism wants to make belief a work when it is not. What is necessary for salvation is belief, not works (except the works of Christ!). You keep wanting to make believing the gospel a work the believer does. It simply isn't a work.

Diligent,

You hit the nail on the head! This is indeed what biblical predestination is all about. And I agree with you in that i reject a theological system that seeks to redefine what the bible states very clearly thus redering opaque what was clear in the first place.

[Luke]

Originally Posted by grace to me

if we all had the opportunity to be saved by our belief wouldn't that be by the righteousness of two ?
jim
sorry, ive got to quit working this overtime , what i meant was obedience of two. vs.19
you would have the obedience of Christ and the obedience of the sinner.


Rom.5:17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one ; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one , Jesus Christ.)
18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

Friend, even I know the answer to this one. Belief is not a work of righteousness.

Rom 4:11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:

Rom 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Belief is not a work of righteousness. Belief is trusting Jesus Christ which results in imputed righteousness.

[chette777]

Eph 1:4 ..God has chosen us in Him, that is [B]IN CHRIST[B] ... you see Gods freknowledge led him to only choose those who would be IN CHRIST. God does not choose anyone who is out side Christ. We got IN Christ by our Faith in His finished work. We were sealed in him bythe Holy Ghost and only those who are in Christ will be predestened. but the key is you must be IN CHRIST in Him in order for God to choose you.

[chette777]

Brandon good job in defending God choosing. Calvinist have literally redefined the word free will to mean disobediance and separate from it term volition. they believe a man has volition but that is free will is disobediant at it's best. A good ol English dictionary of the word beleif or believe will clear it all up.