[stephanos]

Originally Posted by hamite1212

I use to be Pentecostal and I know for a fact that 99% of the spirits are "seducing spirits" and yet there are times healings do occur with even Baptism and etc. However, Pentecostals believe in wholesale healings and should any of them profess to have the "gifts" then let us all challenge them to take us to a large body of water and let us all see that person walk on water since the Bible says that they get all the gifts the Lord has. I know of good Christian Pentecostals and they truly love the Lord but most are in it for emotional feelings over feelings from the true Holy Spirit. When reading the Bible you don't get emotional because it's from the Lord Jesus Christ and that Bible is a mirror of what man and woman are. We're all sinful and by the way the healings, tongues and etc. that was done in the Bible there was a Jew around and Jews require a sign. However, I must caution anyone to make sure the gifts are taken with a grain of salt and at the same time pray if it is from God Himself. The Lord still does healings and so on but not at a wholesale level. I heard a Jewish saved Preacher who was good on this topic and what a preacher he is. I wish I could have gotten his name and website but I heard 75% of his sermon while driving and got out of range of the radio broadcast. When people put hands on you what if they have evil spirits in them? What's in them goes into you and Satan can heal because Judas cast out devils and healed and the Lord called him a devil.

Hope this helps

Indeed, the key is to always test the spirits to see if they are of God or not. Let us not get into a stife with those that practice false tongues, since Christ warned us of pulling up the tares within the wheat. As Jude writes And of some have compassion, making a difference, and others save with fear, hating even the garment spotted by the flesh. There are times we must know (this is when we should be instant in prayer to seek His wisdom) when to use compassion, and when to use fear to bring those that are wandering back into the fold. Let us do all things in humility, lest we be tempted also.

Much Love in Christ Jesus,
Stephen

PS - I just wanted to add, that you can be certain that when we disciples of Christ Jesus take seriously the call to go and preach the word to all creatures that wonders and signs will follow. I was really moved by the Back To Jerusalem brethren at http://www.backtojerusalem.com. They've shared quite a few testamonies of miracles happening as they preach the Gospel in China and abroad. Amazing stuff. I can't stop thanking God! Hallelujah!

[George]

Originally Posted by stephanos

Indeed, the key is to always test the spirits to see if they are of God or not. Let us not get into a stife with those that practice false tongues, since Christ warned us of pulling up the tares within the wheat. As Jude writes And of some have compassion, making a difference, and others save with fear, hating even the garment spotted by the flesh. There are times we must know (this is when we should be instant in prayer to seek His wisdom) when to use compassion, and when to use fear to bring those that are wandering back into the fold. Let us do all things in humility, lest we be tempted also.

Much Love in Christ Jesus,
Stephen

PS - I just wanted to add, that you can be certain that when we disciples of Christ Jesus take seriously the call to go and preach the word to all creatures that wonders and signs will follow. I was really moved by the Back To Jerusalem brethren at http://www.backtojerusalem.com. They've shared quite a few testamonies of miracles happening as they preach the Gospel in China and abroad. Amazing stuff. I can't stop thanking God! Hallelujah!

In regards to your comments,

For 50 years I have wondered about the people who have embraced Pentecostalism (now referred to as "Charismatics") - because of their desire to SEE Signs, Wonders, and Miracles, especially with this verse staring them in the face:[Matthew 12:39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a SIGN; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas: ].

And for all of those 50 years - all of the so-called Signs, Wonders, and Miracles (that I "heard" of) are ALWAYS taking place in some remote corner of the world where they can NOT be verified (Africa; South America; remote parts of Asia; the South Pacific; China; Mongolia; etc.; etc.; etc.).

I wonder - are these the "same kind" of "Signs", "Wonders", and "Miracles" that are "supposedly" taking place in Lakeland, Florida? Or which "supposedly" took place in Brownsville, Florida before that? Or that "supposedly" took place in Tobago (West Indies)? Or that "supposedly" took place in Toronto, Canada? Etc., etc., etc.!

Some of us weren't born yesterday (or the day before). These people (Pentecostals/Charismatics) have always emphasized the Holy Spirit [John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall NOT speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.]; "Revival"; and "holy living"; but they almost always ignore the Lord Jesus Christ (as presented in the Scriptures) and God's Holy word (the Scriptures, i.e. the Bible).

In this age (Dispensation), and under the "New Covenant" in the blood of our Lord and Saviour, we are to live by the FAITH OF THE LORD JESUS CHRIST - NOT BY SIGHT! [Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.]

Our HOPE is in Christ, NOT Signs, Wonders, and Miracles! [Romans 8:24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is SEEN is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?]
25 But if we hope for that we SEE not, then do we with patience wait for it.

Your looking for the WRONG "things" - we are looking for:

Titus 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;

Amen & amen ". . . . Even so, come, Lord Jesus." [Revelation 22:20]

[stephanos]

Originally Posted by George

In regards to your comments,

For 50 years I have wondered about the people who have embraced Pentecostalism (now referred to as "Charismatics") - because of their desire to SEE Signs, Wonders, and Miracles, especially with this verse staring them in the face:[Matthew 12:39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a SIGN; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas: ].

And for all of those 50 years - all of the so-called Signs, Wonders, and Miracles (that I "heard" of) are ALWAYS taking place in some remote corner of the world where they can NOT be verified (Africa; South America; remote parts of Asia; the South Pacific; China; Mongolia; etc.; etc.; etc.).

I wonder - are these the "same kind" of "Signs", "Wonders", and "Miracles" that are "supposedly" taking place in Lakeland, Florida? Or which "supposedly" took place in Brownsville, Florida before that? Or that "supposedly" took place in Tobago (West Indies)? Or that "supposedly" took place in Toronto, Canada? Etc., etc., etc.!

Some of us weren't born yesterday (or the day before). These people (Pentecostals/Charismatics) have always emphasized the Holy Spirit [John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall NOT speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.]; "Revival"; and "holy living"; but they almost always ignore the Lord Jesus Christ (as presented in the Scriptures) and God's Holy word (the Scriptures, i.e. the Bible).

In this age (Dispensation), and under the "New Covenant" in the blood of our Lord and Saviour, we are to live by the FAITH OF THE LORD JESUS CHRIST - NOT BY SIGHT! [Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.]

Our HOPE is in Christ, NOT Signs, Wonders, and Miracles! [Romans 8:24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is SEEN is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?]
25 But if we hope for that we SEE not, then do we with patience wait for it.

Your looking for the WRONG "things" - we are looking for:

Titus 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;

Amen & amen ". . . . Even so, come, Lord Jesus." [Revelation 22:20]

right, I totally agree with you. Those Chinese missionaries that attest to the miracles would agree with you as well. Here is from their website:

Question A-7. Do you think miracles will be an important factor in reaching the nations?

You need to understand that miracles are not something we should seek after in themselves. Miracles are not a toy for us to play with. They are an integral part of the Gospel. We are not called to follow miracles, but the Bible says signs and wonders will follow us when we preach the Gospel (see Mark 16:17-20). The miracles therefore act as evidence that the message is true. When we tell people that Jesus is alive, and they see him heal a cripple or deliver a demon-possessed person, they will easily believe the message!

Among China’s house churches we estimate as many as 80% of believers first come to Jesus because they receive a miraculous healing or deliverance from the Lord. They give their lives unreservedly to God in response.

The Scriptures point out that when a new believer both hears the Gospel and sees a demonstration of its power, their faith will be deep. That is why the Apostle Paul wrote, “My message and my preaching were not with wise and persuasive words, but with a demonstration of the Spirit’s power, so that your faith might not rest on man’s wisdom, but on God’s power.” 1 Corinthians 2:4

As Paul explained, when the Word of God comes to people not only with persuasive human words, but with a demonstration of the power and reality of God, their faith rests on God’s power and not on man’s wisdom. This is much better! In China new believers are often willing to endure tremendous hardship, torture and harassment, even when they have believed in Christ just a few weeks or months. When someone comes to Jesus because they experienced His power operating in their lives, they have no trouble believing Jesus is alive, because they have already met Him! If they were ever to deny Christ they would not only have to reject the theological aspect of God’s Word, but they would also have to reject their own experiences.

Therefore to answer the question, yes miracles are an important factor, but they are not something we seek in themselves, but something that happens automatically when the Good News is preached to the lost. We should not follow miracles, but miracles should follow us when we preach! This has been our experience all over China.

Good stuff.

Peace and Love,
Stephen

[chette777]

Originally Posted by stephanos

They are an integral part of the Gospel. We are not called to follow miracles, but the Bible says signs and wonders will follow us when we preach the Gospel (see Mark 16:17-20). The miracles therefore act as evidence that the message is true. Stephen

Which Gospel was preached in Mark?

Miracles were always part of the "Gospel of the Kingdom". only in Pauls ministry did God confirm his message to the people with signs, wonders and power. the reason was clear there was no finished Scripture on his message.

Today Miracles are not needed to verify the message it can be found in any Language of any Bible perverted or preserved. We have Miracles because He(the HolyGhost) who gives us the gift of Miracles,or healings, or signs does so for a benefit to the saved not to lure the unsaved or to verify the message.

most of the people promoting experiencial Christianity have all the scriputres mixed up. But I have found out of all the Menonites I have met (and God bless them they are good people) their lives are beyond reproach, but they are all weak in the scriptures. and it is this weakness that causes people to look for other ways and experiences and led to the starting of such groups as the Pentecostals and the New wine, wind and laughter movements we have today.

[stephanos]

Originally Posted by chette777

Which Gospel was preached in Mark?

Miracles were always part of the "Gospel of the Kingdom". only in Pauls ministry did God confirm his message to the people with signs, wonders and power. the reason was clear there was no finished Scripture on his message.

Today Miracles are not needed to verify the message it can be found in any Language of any Bible perverted or preserved. We have Miracles because He(the HolyGhost) who gives us the gift of Miracles,or healings, or signs does so for a benefit to the saved not to lure the unsaved or to verify the message.

most of the people promoting experiencial Christianity have all the scriputres mixed up. But I have found out of all the Menonites I have met (and God bless them they are good people) their lives are beyond reproach, but they are all weak in the scriptures. and it is this weakness that causes people to look for other ways and experiences and led to the starting of such groups as the Pentecostals and the New wine, wind and laughter movements we have today.

*sigh* I love how you think anyone that disagree's with your theology is weak in the scriptures. This really is good stuff.

Stephen

[chette777]

I mentioned nothing of my theology.

but what you are refering to in not my Theology but my Study method of rightly dividing.

YOu do divide I have seen it. just wrongly I say that in love brother.

and again Stephen you don't answer the questions but criticize my study method (theology?). what Gospel was found in Mark? if you answer correctly you see that signs and miracles are not for today. but if you answer wrongly you will have every experiencial full gospel doctrine attached to a gospel that Mark taught. which is not the Gospel that Paul taught.

have you not identified the three Gospels of the NT yet?

I am going to blog an Inductive Bible Study program starting with Narratives using he book of Ruth. I would ask that you at least take an non biased look at the first lesson. afterwards if you think rightly dividing is still not for you. I will try not to nail you on it to much. I will keep you posted when it gets up and running.