[CKG]

Originally Posted by Samuel

I knew someone would bring this up. It is also mentioned that Jacob (Israel) paid tithes in Abraham. This is a foreshadowing of the Law that was to come.

I have no objections to tithing, but to constrain Church members under a law, NO. Paul plainly taught that giving was not to be by constraint, when he asked for a gift. But in showing forth by those who were involved, the love of Christ that was in them.

So what was a law of tithing to Israel, is like the Sabbath law. It does not extend to Grace. But unfortunately, these huge Denominational Monoliths cannot exist without tithing.

I also meant to point that out. I see nothing wrong with someone giving 10% just like I see nothing wrong with having church on Saturday, wearing a coat and tie to church or a dozen other like things we could come up with. It's when you start trying to enforce these things on others that it becomes error.

[greenbear]

Originally Posted by Brother Presswood

I do not believe anyone here is advocating attaching tithing to salvation. Certainly, that would be legalistic. According to Leviticus 27:30, the tithe is "the LORD's." Tithing is an issue of love, not law.

People mistakenly think that tithing has to do with money; it doesn’t have to do with money. God owns the cattle on a thousand hills. He owns the hills and all the gold in the hills. He tells us in Psalms 50 that He owns everything and if He did need anything, He wouldn’t tell us.

Ps 50:10 For every beast of the forest is mine, and the cattle upon a thousand hills.
11 I know all the fowls of the mountains: and the wild beasts of the field are mine.
12 If I were hungry, I would not tell thee: for the world is mine, and the fulness thereof.

God doesn’t need anything. He doesn’t need our money. He wants our obedience and our love. When the offering plate goes by, we can rejoice at another opportunity to express your love and obedience to God.

I do understand we are talking about tithing, not salvation. My point is that there is no law for us. There is no law of tithing in the dispensation of grace. It is the Holy Spirit's role to convict every person whether to give, how much and to whom.

[Amanda S.]

I believe this brings out great points and is in essence what my husband teaches....

http://www.learnthebible.org/tithing.html

[PaulB]

Originally Posted by CKG

I also meant to point that out. I see nothing wrong with someone giving 10% just like I see nothing wrong with having church on Saturday, wearing a coat and tie to church or a dozen other like things we could come up with. It's when you start trying to enforce these things on others that it becomes error.

Great quote Craig, I couldn't agree more. I have no issue with giving I am in no way looking for a "get out clause", I just wanted to hear what your convictions are so that I could know more on it.


Thanks also to everyone for all of your responses they are very helpful!

God bless

PaulB

[chette777]

I believe Abraham purposed in his heart and gave to Melchizedek.

and likewise if you are struggling with what to purpose in your heart, A tithe is a Biblical example of giving.

But Christians are not under the law to tithe. Mal 4:4 says the law was given for all Israel, the counsel at Jerusalem said they would lay none of the law upon the Gentile believers.

Paul never taught tithing as a way to give, he left that matter up to the one with the bounty and the Holy Ghost who lived in his heart.

It is prosperity theology that really pushes the tithing and offering to the limit and has caused untold damage to the faith and Christian growth of many. it is all part of the Apostasy that this age will end in.

[wingwiper]

Originally Posted by Amanda S.

First thought: I've never heard any pastors I have any respect for preach that this is a law or a rule.

Second: Fast answer - No it doesn't still apply

Third: 10% can be a good starting place.

Good preaching there sis..................

Malachi 3:10 Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.

The Church is not the storehouse.

Malachi 1:1 The burden of the word of the LORD to Israel by Malachi.

The issue of tithing can be contrasted with giving under grace through Paul:

2 Corinthians 9:6-7 But this I say, He which soweth sparingly shall reap also sparingly; and he which soweth bountifully shall reap also bountifully. Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.

Simple enough, huh?

As Amanda said................I do believe that a tenth is at least a good number to “start” with. If 10% is good enough for the Old Testament what does that say for the New Testament-- Hebrews 7:22 By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament.

[Jassy]

The most common Scriptures used in the church today before the "offering" music begins to play are:

Malachi 3:10 - Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.

Malachi 3:8 - Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings.

Mark 12 and Luke 21 talk about a poor widow who threw in or cast in "two mites."

Now apparently, this was a large sum of her income, if you go percentage-wise.

If someone throws in $1,000 and their income is only $5,000/yr. and another throws in $1,000 and their income is $50,000/yr., well who has been the most generous, percentage-wise? The $1,000 out of the $5,000 was given out of great sacrifice. The $1,000 out of the $50,000 would scarcely be noticed.

The Lord doesn't care about the amount, He cares about the HEART with which it is given. HE doesn't NEED our money!! It's all HIS anyways! Don't you think, if He is the creator and owner of all things, that He could easily supply all of our need? Of course!! He wants to see a willing heart; that's what He desires. It's all about ATTITUDE!

Since churches generally use the Old Testament scriptures quoted above to more or less "guilt" people into giving, guess who the banks' BIGGEST customers must be on Monday morning? Well, following Sunday church services, church secretaries, of course! They're eager to deposit the "tithes" into the church banking account. Nevermind if it's going into the church building fund, the missionary fund, the minister's salary, or any other part of the church "budget." How can we be so sure that our money is properly given and properly being used?

That is where we are given freedom and we must use wisdom to decide where, when and how much to give. That is our choice. I once heard that giving was out of WORSHIP of our Lord. They said that the word "worship" was originally a contraction of the words "worth" and "ship." And that we were to pay the ministers according to how much we felt they were WORTH in our Christian learning. Now I don't know if that is true or not... but it is our own choice to make, as sister Jennifer pointed out. And I agree with that.

I'm sorry that I'm so very negative and skeptical about this tithing topic. I came out of the cultist Worldwide Church of God, which taught people not only that they owed a tenth of all of their earnings to the church, but that they also must tithe an additional "tenth of a tenth" to help the poor who did not have enough income.

CONSIDER: Have you ever watched the faces of those around you, who were placing their hard-earned money into the collection plate on Sunday morning? Have you noticed the solemnity with which people associate this time in church? Have you EVER seen someone release whatever they've given into the collection place with a smile of JOY on their face? THAT, brother or sister, should be how we ALL give - yet I've never once seen a person SMILE while giving! Not ONCE!! I've seen a scowl. I've seen a smirk. I've seen a frown. I've seen a harried expression. I've seen a straight solemn expressionless face. But nary a smile.

As someone said here the Lord loves a "cheerful giver." (2 Corinthians 9:7)

Am I against giving to the church? Of course not. The early churches did take up collections on the first day of the week (Sunday), whenever Paul was NOT present, to support the ministry. Paul and the apostles did much travelling and that was not free. In addition, Paul WORKED. He was a tentmaker. He didn't expect the church to support him, nor did he require it. Yet he was thankful for whatever was given and he used it properly.

We are taught to be "good stewards" of what we are given. If a person is in debt - with credit cards - well, they ought to pay off those cards FIRST and make that a priority. If giving to the church is putting them further into debt, that's not what a person should be doing. God isn't going to magically pay-off those credit cards that have been misused! He's not going to bless you, if you've been a bad steward of what he has entrusted you with.

Yes, God does sometimes choose to bless people. Sometimes I think of it like a TEST. Will the person properly use or MISuse those resources? Will the person become narcissistic? Will the person develop an "entitlement" view?

I've known far too many Christians who, having been blessed with a fancy house, expensive cars, and new, modern furniture, fully believe that it is the end result of their faith and God's blessings upon them. They fully believe that, if you are rich, then you're reaping the blessings of your faith. If you're poor, then there's obviously something lacking in your faith. That saddens me, simply because they'll never experience the richness in faith that poverty or suffering might bring. I've seen people living in great JOY who have very little and who need very little. After all, we are told that squeezing a camel through the eye of a needle is not easy!! (Matthew 19:24, Mark 10:25, Luke 18:25)

I have no jealousy or hard feelings against those who have wealth. To me, that's neither here nor there in my faith. I would pray for blessings, only to do what may not be possible with my present income. I'd really love to support some foreign missionaries, to send Bibles, tracts and other literature into poverty-ridden areas of the world. To strengthen the faith of those who are in Christian-minority countries.

Lord, please bless me in that way, so that I may be a good steward of your blessings and be able to help others who are more needful. In the name of Jesus Christ, I pray. Amen. [Note: The prayer doesn't magically mean that the blessings will rain down upon me!]

Jassy

[Renee]

Mark 12:41 And Jesus sat over against the treasury, and beheld how the people cast money into the treasury: and many that were rich cast in much.

Mark 12:42 And there came a certain poor widow, and she threw in two mites, which make a farthing.

Mark 12:43 And he called unto him his disciples, and saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That this poor widow hath cast more in, than all they which have cast into the treasury:

I do not believe we are comanded to tithe. If we (us personally)tithe, there would be some missioneries that would not have been helped. I believe in giving with a cheerful heart. Things get tight sometimes, but My Lord has always put food on the table, a roof over our head and clothes on our backs.

Do we need anymore?

1 Corinthians 10:26 For the earth is the Lord's, and the fulness thereof.

Anytime we give, big or small, before or after taxes, before or after bills, before or after food, we are only giving back part of what The Lord has given us. So Whatever we give, give cheerfully.

That is my take,and not put here for discussion. Just my two cents.

Renee

[Amanda S.]

Sister Jassy,

The most common Scriptures used in the church today before the "offering" music begins to play are:

Are there churches that actually read this Scripture before the offering?! Just curious...what types of churches are these?

[greenbear]

Originally Posted by Amanda S.

Sister Jassy,



Are there churches that actually read this Scripture before the offering?! Just curious...what types of churches are these?

That is a curious thing to be curious about.