[Jordan]

You guys are just too closed minded...

[Jordan]

Therefore as S. Augustine saith, that variety of Translations is profitable for the finding out of the sense of the Scriptures: [S. Aug. 2. de doctr. Christian. cap. 14.]

What about what S. Augustine says in the preface of the 1611 edition of the Bible?

[Luke]

But who is Augustine? He is another man.

What does it matter what men say about the scriptures? What do the scriptures say about the scriptures? What does God say about the scriptures?

And can you please reply to the questions/refutes posted thus far?

In Christ,
Luke

[Jordan]

So then we shouldn't read it. Jesus didn't speak English so we should read it in the original Hebrew and Greek texts.

[Luke]

Feel free to learn Ancient Hebrew and Koine Greek. Feel free to find those "Original Manuscripts".

[George]

Originally Posted by Jordan

So then we shouldn't read it. Jesus didn't speak English so we should read it in the original Hebrew and Greek texts.

Aloha Jordan,

Did you read my post #3 on this post? if you did - You haven't addressed it.
Did you go back and read my post #69:
AV1611 Bible Forums > Bible Versions > Were The Early Fundamentalist KJV Only? > Page 7 - if you did, you have avoided addressing any of the issues and points that I brought up.

If you are unwilling to examine an issue on its merits and just decide matters on how you "feel"; or what you personally "think" you are not going to learn very much from God's Holy word.

You accuse those of us on this Forum of being: "narrow minded" - is it just possible that you might not know what you are talking about? I'm 50 years older than you is it just possible that I might know "just a little bit" more than you? I have 16 grandchildren, some of which are older than you, is there a chance that God might have shown me something that he hasn't shown you yet?

If you refuse to read those posts and address the issues presented in them then all you are doing is engaging in "destructive criticism" without any foundation or "facts" to support your position.

You're 18 years old - start thinking like a man, instead of a child.

1 Corinthians 13:11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.

[bibleprotector]

The 1611 translators wrote, "Therefore as St Augustine saith, that variety of translations is profitable for the finding out of the sense of the Scriptures".

Where they, or Augustine of Hippo talking about modern versions? No. Were they actually recommending that many different translations were needed for us to find out the sense of the Scripture? No.

The KJB translators looked at many different sources, it is true, but they selected or identified that there was one true reading and one true translation at every place. If you point to the margins, they are evidence in favour of having one true reading and one true translation. The marginal matter is not "alternative", but "variant". It is other information which may either be false, erroneous, half true, inaccurate, semi-factual, etc., but it is never the exact, inspired truth.

It is completely wrong for people today to be consulting a variety of translations (except in a believing mode) because we must start from the foundation of having ONE REPRESENTATIONAL AUTHORITY. The modernists put anything else there, such as their own opinion, but we must put God's Word there. We put the KJB as the foundation. We recognise that it is the standard which God has supplied. And from that point, we have already accepted that the variety of translations was profitable for rendering the sense as is presented in the King James Bible, and by studying the KJB, we are finding out the sense of the Scripture without having to consult the "originals".

Thus, if ever a believer was to look at anything other than the KJB, it must be with the view that what he is looking at is imperfect/not aligning exactly to the truth. Therefore, we do not use the Greek to correct the KJB, but rather, should be viewing anyone who is trying to do so with extreme suspicion in that regard. This is because we already have the sense of the Scripture, and anything otherwise now serves only for the confuting, except that if we look at such things as former things, or things to be laid behind, or things scattered, incomplete or otherwise not set up by God as the final authority, though having some residual secondary authority (e.g. the Geneva Version or a Textus Receptus edition).

[bibleprotector]

Several Scriptural Statements that Require Answers.

ONE. Isaiah 34:16 says, “Seek ye out of the book of the LORD, and read: no one of these shall fail, none shall want her mate: for my mouth it hath commanded, and his spirit it hath gathered them.” Please point to one Bible version or translation today that is perfect, that can be called the book of the Lord. Please point to this book that has every word present without addition or subtraction. A book which has every promise exactly presented to the correct sense of God’s intended communication. Please point to the book where the spirit of God has outworked to gather the words thereof. If God said to seek it out, it must able to be identified on Earth today.

TWO. Hebrews 10:7 says, “Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.” Where is the volume of the book on Earth? Where is the one Bible in English that is God’s will and testament? It can’t be mutliple versions, because it says “volume” meaning one.

THREE. Psalm 119:133 says, “Thy word is very pure: therefore thy servant loveth it.” Which Bible is the one that is very pure? It can only be one, because all differ, and impurities can be identified in many of them. But one has to be very pure.

FOUR. Psalm 12:6 says, “The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.” Where are God’s pure words? Where and when have they been purified seven times? Notice the word “are” which is present tense, meaning that the seven-times purified Word should be manifest right now.

FIVE. Proverbs 30:4-6 says, “Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? what is his name, and what is his son’s name, if thou canst tell? Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him. Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.” First, What is God the Father’s name? Second, Where are all the pure words of God? Which version, and it has to be present on Earth because he warned people against changing it. Third, Where is the Bible Version that is without human error in the Text and Translation?

SIX. Luke 4:4 says, “And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.” Where is the Bible that contains every word of God?

SEVEN. The end of the book of Revelation warns against adding or taking away from the Bible. Do we have a Bible that has no addition or subtraction, that is actually blessed of God, and blessed for the believer?

EIGHT. Matthew 5:18 says, “For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.” Where is the jot and tittle exact and perfect Bible? It must be present, because Jesus said that His Word would not pass away!

NINE. In John 12:48, Matthew 28:19, 20 and Matthew 24:14, Jesus indicated that His very words (as are in the Bible) would endure and be present in all the world and to the end of the world. Where are Christ’s exact words today? Jesus knew that they would go to nations, so there is no reason to claim that they should be in the same language He spoke them in. Where is the perfect word of Christ in today’s global language of English?

TEN. 1 Peter 1:23, 25 says, “Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. ... But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.” Where is the enduring Word of God today that is believed by Christians today?

ELEVEN. Romans 16:26 says, “But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith”. Where is the exact message that God has made known to all nations? What is the exact sense of the message? Where is the perfect translation?

TWELVE. Psalm 18:30 says, “As for God, his way is perfect: the word of the LORD is tried: he is a buckler to all those that trust in him.” Where is God’s Word? If God’s works are perfect, He must be able to make known His perfect Word. What is it?

Originally Posted by George

Aloha Jordan,

Have you read my post outlining the "Which Bible Issue" on this Forum? You will find it at:

AV1611 Bible Forums > Bible Versions > Were The Early Fundamentalist KJV Only? > Page 7 - Post #69

If you haven't read the Post - Please do. The "issue" of "Which Bible" is far more complex than your or my "personal preference".
Have you examined the following Issues in depth, or at all?

1. The Question: Which Bible, if any, is God's Holy word?
2. The Internal Evidence: What Does God Have to say about His word?
3. Old Testament History of the Text.
4. New Testament History of the Text.
5. The History of the Transmission of the Text of the Bible in the Church Age.
6.The Manuscript Evidence - {Hebrew, Greek. Latin, Syrian, Armenian, Georgian, Gothic, Egyptian, etc., etc.}
7.A Comparison of Versions with the King James Bible.

If you haven't, you should before you make a judgment call that will affect the rest of your Christian life. Christians are obligated (commanded) to judge "righteous judgment" [John 7:24 Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.] and you'll notice that we are NOT to judge according to "appearance".

What you or I "think" is of no consequence to God.

Matthew 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

Luke 4:4 And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.

God expects us to live "by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God" - How can we if all of the "modern versions" differ from the King James Bible in as much as 5000 places in the New Testament alone?

All of the "modern bible versions" are based on a very few extremely corrupt manuscripts (especially in the New Testament) and the fact that most modern day Christians are ignorant of these facts and many, many more, will not excuse them at the "Judgment Seat of Christ."

If you are not familiar with this most important issue read some of the books that I recommend in my Post #69. Take your King James Bible and compare it with any modern version and see for yourself the difference between them {Go to the King James Bible Page - http://av1611.com/kjbp/ and check out "Westcott and Hort's Magic Marker Binge"; and the many articles that "Diligent" (Brandon) has posted about this subject.

Take your time - don't make any hasty judgments about the issue of "Which Bible" without examining the issue in some depth first.
[Proverbs 18:13 He that answereth a matter before he heareth it, it is folly and shame unto him.]

I will be happy to assist you in any way that I can in your search for the "scripture of truth" {Daniel 10:21}.

Yours for the Lord Jesus Christ and for His Holy Word,

George Anderson

George, are you a seventh day adventist?

[George]

MDOC,

Proverbs 19:1 Better is the poor that walketh in his integrity, than he that is perverse in his lips, and is a fool.

You will notice that I have NEVER commented on any of your senseless posts! And this is my FIRST and LAST post to you.
Proverbs 26:5 Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit.

Most of your posts on this Forum are foolish; senseless; and absent any redeeming value. You "prattle" on and on without addressing an issue and are more of a "nuisance" than any thing else!
Proverbs 26:4 Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him.

Proverbs 10:8 The wise in heart will receive commandments: but a prating fool shall fall.
Proverbs 10:10 He that winketh with the eye causeth sorrow: but a prating fool shall fall.
Proverbs 10:23 It is as sport to a fool to do mischief: but a man of understanding hath wisdom.
Proverbs 12:15 The way of a fool is right in his own eyes: but he that hearkeneth unto counsel is wise.
Proverbs 13:16 Every prudent man dealeth with knowledge: but a fool layeth open his folly.
Proverbs 15:5 A fool despiseth his father's instruction: but he that regardeth reproof is prudent.
Proverbs 17:7 Excellent speech becometh not a fool: much less do lying lips a prince.
Proverbs 17:10 A reproof entereth more into a wise man than an hundred stripes into a fool.
Proverbs 17:12 Let a bear robbed of her whelps meet a man, rather than a fool in his folly.
Proverbs 17:16 Wherefore is there a price in the hand of a fool to get wisdom, seeing he hath no heart to it?
Proverbs 17:21 He that begetteth a fool doeth it to his sorrow: and the father of a fool hath no joy.
Proverbs 17:24 Wisdom is before him that hath understanding; but the eye of a fool are in the ends of the earth.
Proverbs 18:2 A fool hath no delight in understanding, but that his heart may discover itself.
Proverbs 18:6 A fool's lips enter into contention, and his mouth calleth for strokes.
Proverbs 18:7 A fool's mouth is his destruction, and his lips are the snare of his soul.
Proverbs 19:1 Better is the poor that walketh in his integrity, than he that is perverse in his lips, and is a fool.
Proverbs 20:3 It is an honour for a man to cease from strife: but every fool will be meddling.
Proverbs 23:9 Speak not in the ears of a fool: for he will despise the wisdom of thy words.
Proverbs 24:7 Wisdom is too high for a fool: he openeth not his mouth in the gate.
Proverbs 26:1 As snow in summer, and as rain in harvest, so honour is not seemly for a fool.
Proverbs 26:4 Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him.
Proverbs 26:5 Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit.
Proverbs 26:8 As he that bindeth a stone in a sling, so is he that giveth honour to a fool.
Proverbs 26:11 As a dog returneth to his vomit, so a fool returneth to his folly.
Proverbs 27:22 Though thou shouldest bray a fool in a mortar among wheat with a pestle, yet will not his foolishness depart from him.
Proverbs 28:26 He that trusteth in his own heart is a fool: but whoso walketh wisely, he shall be delivered.
Proverbs 29:11 A fool uttereth all his mind: but a wise man keepeth it in till afterwards.

Proverbs 14:2 He that walketh in his uprightness feareth the LORD: but he that is perverse in his ways despiseth him.
Proverbs 12:8 A man shall be commended according to his wisdom: but he that is of a perverse heart shall be despised.
Proverbs 17:20 He that hath a froward heart findeth no good: and he that hath a perverse tongue falleth into mischief.

1 Timothy 6:3 If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;
4 He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings,
5 Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.

I have no time for fools - and I can't even wish you well.