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#31
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I'd like to suggest that you get to know me a bit more before you start right in with the defensive and a bit agressive responses to what I write. First of all, I never said America was bad (then again I'm not saying that they're good), nor did I claim to be a pacifist (pacifists are invovled in the political process, whereas someone that is non-resistant is not). I do believe that those in authority are servants of God and that God uses them to serve His purpose. I'm not sure how much more complicated I am able to make this. There is certainly no doubt that throughout history, those in authority have persecuted the children of God in extremely violent ways. The Mennonite have not, nor will we, forget what happened to us in the 16th century. We believe that it is not our job to tell God's servants how to do their job, and it is not their job to tell us how to be children of God. Another thing I'd like to point out is that I've never met a "moslem jihadist" and I would be lying if I said that hope I never do. I'd love to get a chance to meet one of these people to witness to them of my Father and Lord Jesus Christ. If I have to die in order for them to realize that my faith is indeed true, then so be it. I think it's important for you to realize that I do not agree with doing violent things to those I (or others) label the enemy. I believe that the only way to fight the enemy is by fighting the enemy in the way that my Master faught them, by being the servant of all, and being willing do die for those that are against me. Does this belief make me a complete fool in the eyes of the world (and many "Christians"), yes indeed it does. Truly I am a fool for Jesus Christ. Another thing that I'd like to note; I'd like to point out that those soldiers you speak of, whom have shed blood to 'protect me', I claim none of the blood they've spilled. Their enemies are NOT my enemies. Vengence belongs to the Lord. I hope you can read this without getting angry PB1789, and more than anything I hope you are able to understand that not everyone is going to agree with you all the time. And the way you respond to those that do disagree with you is an opportunity to show that the Spirit is living in you. Peace and Love PB1789 Quote:
Thank you for joining in. You've brought up a very good verse. However your conclusions do not make much sense. I'm not sure how a man could remain in an army and not do violence to others. There are two brothers in the Mennonite church I visit regularly that at some point in their service told their superiors that they would no longer do violence to others because of their belief in non-resistance and non-violence as taught by Jesus. One remained to do non-combatant service (this was before he became Mennonite) and the other felt he couldn't continue to assist in a war he felt was unjust. I do not think it unhonorable to obey God before men in this case. Quote:
So anywho, I'm glad you all took the time to share thoughts with me. I'd also like to point out that since PB1789 critisized the fact that Diligent allows people on this board to post "stuff' and I'm assuming he means me, I will leave if this is the desire of those that are in authority here. I do not wish to cause any of my brothers to stumble because of what I say and believe. Much Love in Christ, Stephen Last edited by stephanos; 05-12-2008 at 10:38 PM. |
#32
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I don't know what you mean by my tone. I'm just giving you an opportunity to support your position with Scripture. I don't think that's unreasonable or confrontational. When people set up rules, they have to justify those rules with Scripture. If they don't, it's nothing more than legalism. Paul wrote in detail about what constitutes excommunicable behavior, and as far as I know, he did not list military or police service. |
#33
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Stephanos questioned:
I'm not sure how a man could remain in an army and not do violence to others. |
#34
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(2nd try, time ran out)
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A question: Does your church permit police as members? The soldiers of John's day were also the police force. |
#35
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I understand now your reasoning here. Concerning police, no, a police officer would not be allowed to be a member of any Anabaptist church, whether Amish, Conservative Mennonite, Old Order River Brethren, Old German Baptist Brethren, or Hutterite. You will notice that we all don't wear a mustache, and it is because of this very belief in non-resistance (the mustache was, and is, a symbol of pride and authority for most worldly folk. It was at one point worn by most officers in WW1, which was when the Amish and Mennonite began shaving it off). We don't believe that we belong in positions of authority over men that aren't of the brethren. We don't believe a child of God can exercise authority over the actions of men that do not serve Jesus Christ. I understand that to you baptists this seems rediculous. I'm not sure what I can tell you to explain this. Like I've said before, there are countless books on the Anabaptists, and YES there are biblical reasons for what we do. However I don't feel the Spirit guiding me to 'get into it' here with you all. I've spoken with baptists before about this, and you all are ever so staunch in your beliefs that Christians should be encouraged to serve 'their' country by killing the enemies of the nation they live in, whether or not those 'enemies' are devout Christians (heaven forbid). Since some of you think I'm an anti-American 'pacifist' I will refrain from these sort of discussions in the future. I don't see it bearing any fruit on these forums. I'm open to anyone truly curious about us via Private Message (I think my AIM, MSN, and ICQ account info is available on this site). To be honest I came to these forums because I truly feel all alone out here in Wenatchee (the nearest Anabaptist congregation is an hour away, and I struggle to get there because of financial and work related issues) in my beliefs that the KJB is the only preserved Words of God in the English language. I really need the fellowship of like minded Christians (in this regard), and don't want to get into debates concerning the various Anabaptist doctrines. I apologize if I've offended anyone. Much Love in Christ, Stephen Last edited by stephanos; 05-13-2008 at 11:25 PM. |
#36
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Good post Diligent. He has skirted (avoided ?)the Biblical examples.
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#37
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Stephanos:--I don't want to get-to-know anyone that said in one of his posts on these boards that he wanted to leave America...{You will not be missed.}
I don't want to be pals with someone who ignores what Scripture teaches about Soldiers/police-law-enforcement officers/War , or that does not have facial hair---which again is what Biblical men have! You are living in a free country, but not willing to "pay-the-freight". You might want to see Paladin54's thread about war and read the many links I posted. |
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