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#41
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Wow...I am sure that post took awhile to type out!
You certainly did a great job of showing how disjointed my question and reasoning was! LoL In post #28 I clarified my jumble thoughts and rephrased the question. The others discoursing with me seemed able to understand what I was wishing to discuss. Sorry you got lost in the mess! Remember where you did a long post and stated that through many of the posts you were "learning"?? That is what I was doing here. I have no interest in this thread at the moment because Bro. Paul and Bro. Forrest did a fine job of reconciling all the Scriptures. Thanks though for all the verses you posted! Praise the Lord for His unspeakable gift. Amen!? |
#42
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I understand not having interest in a particular thread anymore. And I sure do remember learning throughout a post where I wasn't sure of my position. I've also been wrong on some posts. I just didn't see how your position changed from Post #21 to Post #28. Quote:
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Next you quote two parallel verses which have nothing to do with God or man hating the wicked. Quote:
In addition to the scriptures in my last post I would like to add this passage: Quote:
May God bless you, Jennifer Last edited by greenbear; 07-22-2009 at 01:06 AM. |
#43
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Good morning Jennifer,
Again, after thinking through this thread and comparing Scripture I believe Bro. Forrest and I are in agreement on this issue. Quote:
Please keep the love verses in the context of the lost. The Bible says He hates ALL the workers of iniquity. Quote:
I've admitted in this thread things such as "And to just throw this out there" - "I clearly didn't phrase it that way" - "thinking this through" - "I am afraid I did a poor job" - "I jumbled thoughts and Scripture quotations." there are more such like phrases. You are not pointing anything out to me that I am making no sense LoL But thankfully Bro. Forrest and Bro. Paul understood what I was trying express and answered my questions. So please, if you are trying to understand this "Hate the Sin, not the Sinner" idea please ask Bro. Forrest and Bro. Paul as they are clearly better equipped to answer your questions. If you want to know my position read their posts they will do a much better job at explaining my position. Quote:
Bro. Forrest you asked: Quote:
As to the passage you quoted in Matthew...That's a great passage but what point are you trying to make? |
#44
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Let me just say one more thing...My husband who as I've said before knows the Bible like the back of his hand believes that God doesn't hate all unsaved. He hates the especially wicked.
In the Old Testament there appears to be 3 different types of people...the righteous, the wicked and the regular sinner? LoL He loves His children (the saved) and while he doesn't necessarily hate the unsaved He doesn't love them as His own. His love with the unsaved is more benevolent...He doesn't wish them to perish, but is longsuffering and full of mercy. But there are those who He hates...He still hates the same group "the wicked" in the OT and in the NT the wicked is called something else...? In my mind I am picturing our earthly fathers. My husband as a father loves his children, but that doesn't mean he hates all the children that are not his...but neither does he love them in the same sense that he loves his children. He wishes them no ill will. I hesitated to put this out there as I've not studied it out and only asked him in passing. Please though, do not dissect this particular post. I am not teaching anything nor stating what I believe but giving another point of view as I understood it. If there is a reply to this post by chopping it up and making it look ludicrous I will not reply. But if as Bro. Forrest did earlier and just post the evidence of why this is wrong I'd consider continuing in this thread. God bless! |
#45
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So, in addition to those things in Proverbs, the LORD hates "all workers of iniquity" and "the wicked and him that loveth violence" (Ps. 5:5 and 11:5,) and he abhors "the bloody and deceitful man" and "the covetous" (Ps. 5:6 and 10:3.) Jesus' attitude toward the wicked is consistent (of course) with God's HATE as evidenced in Matthew 22:18...he didn't show a lot of love to the Pharisees when he "perceived their wickedness!" There is a difference in someone who commits a wicked act, feels remorse, and repents - and someone who IS "wicked." The "wicked" person that the LORD hates (present tense) is bent on wickedness; he loves to live that way and has no desire to change or repent. God loves a repentant sinner - he STILL hates an unrepentant one...John 3:36b - "...he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him." This is present tense...this person is "condemned already" (John 3:18.) "For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles..." (Rom. 2:24) - the people who "do not obey the truth" in Romans 2. God's name is blasphemed when people do not obey the truth every day (Isaiah 52:5,) and "God is angry with the wicked every day." (Ps. 7:11) The key is not a timetable when God might have stopped being angry - the key is to believe it like it's written - "God is angry WITH THE WICKED every day." It should not be hard to understand that God would be angry that his name is blasphemed, and in Isaiah 52 and Romans 2, it is happening continually every day! Pam www.custerfamilyfarm.com |
#46
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Amanda,
I don't expect you to listen to me. I only ask you to read and reread Tonybones' post #22. Then review the subjects that you have majored in on this Forum. |
#47
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Sis. Jennifer,
I listened and did as you suggested. Now what? |
#48
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Seems what goes around, comes around...around here.
Here's some other's comments on the topic: http://av1611.com/forums/showthread.php?t=91 |
#49
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Here it is in a nutshell. The 2nd post in the first of two long threads.
Biblestudent's post # 2 in the older thread back in March of '08 Quote:
Luke 18:9-14 And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others: Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican. The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican. I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess. And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner. I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted. It is just another powerful snare the devil has set for christians to sidetrack them from being about their Father's business. Unbelievers aren't stupid. They know when inexplicable love is displayed to them and they are disconcerted by it; it's one of the things that reaches unbelievers, that God uses to open their hearts to consider His Son. On the other hand they have a strong nose for hypocrisy. God is telling us He has no pleasure in the death of the wicked. He doesn't want them to go where they are headed. He has no pleasure in sinners being in hell for all eternity. He did not make Hell for man, but for the devil and his angels. Mt 25:41 Ezekiel 33:11 Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel? God so loves mankind that He gave His only Son to become a man for all eternity, to die for our sins and to always be identified with us, and one with us. John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. Jesus tells us what He and His Father are like, and tells us to be as He is. Matthew 5:43-48 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same? And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so? Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect. God is love. 1 John 4:8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love. The destruction of the wicked (His enemies) is His strange work. It is STRANGE to Him! Isaiah 28:21 For the LORD shall rise up as in mount Perazim, he shall be wroth as in the valley of Gibeon, that he may do his work, his strange work; and bring to pass his act, his strange act. When Jesus comes to rescue Israel and to judge the nations He marvels because He is alone. There is none to help. This is a picture of how we are not called to share in His wrath upon the wicked. He will accomplish it without our help. Isaiah 63:3-5 I have trodden the winepress alone; and of the people there was none with me: for I will tread them in mine anger, and trample them in my fury; and their blood shall be sprinkled upon my garments, and I will stain all my raiment. For the day of vengeance is in mine heart, and the year of my redeemed is come. And I looked, and there was none to help; and I wondered that there was none to uphold: therefore mine own arm brought salvation unto me; and my fury, it upheld me. Last edited by greenbear; 07-31-2009 at 03:32 PM. |
#50
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I personally thought Bro. Forrest did a fine job of explaining the Scripture on this topic, but that is just my "opinion". Be blessed! |
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