Originally Posted by Will Kinney

Hi Critical. From what I know of this forum the vast majority of us are all Bible believers. That is, we all believe that the King James Bible is the only complete, pure, perfect, inspired and 100% true Holy Bible and Standard by which all other versions and translations are to be measured and compared.

We do not hold up any one man or group of men as being our final authority. We are all sinners saved by the grace of God through the redeeming blood of the Lamb of God - our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

Not all of us here are in agreement on several issues or doctrines, but what unites us is a common faith in our Lord and Redeemer and a belief that the King James Bible IS the true and pure words of God. ...

Amen, Amen, and Amen!

Originally Posted by Will Kinney

... So, now for the third time, I again will post my initial question to you, which so far you keep avoiding. ...

It really doesn't matter how many times you've asked; you could have asked 100 times while I busy or away. I was never "avoiding" the question, but because of your impatience I have been delaying my answer.

Before I give my answer, allow me to make a prediction: I think you'll be surprised, but because of your pride you will be unsatisfied with my answer. If my conviction is precisely the same as yours, I think you'll just call me a 'lier' (as you have virtually already done); if my answer is one tittle different than your conviction, I think you will just label me a 'heretic'. Already from my brief sharing here, my Christian education has been slandered and my testimony of salvation dismissed. I have nothing to gain by giving an answer. Yet I will answer.

Originally Posted by Will Kinney

... In case your critical thinking skills have missed it (as you did the Greek footnote about kaiper estin being the Received text reading) here it is again. ...

Critical thinking skills have nothing to do with avoiding honest mistakes. Since you keep bringing up the mistake I made, I must not have sufficiently apologized yet. So again, I am sorry; I was wrong there.

[Will Kinney]

Hi Critical. And the answer you haven't been avoiding was.........?

Did I miss it? Oh wait. You're working on it, right? Golly, you've got me sitting on pins and needles. By the way, I promise I will not call you a lier. Instead I will spell the word correctly if it is called for. So, go ahead and surprise us all. What DO you believe about "the Bible"?

Will K

[bibleprotector]

Originally Posted by Will Kinney

Hi Critical. And the answer you haven't been avoiding was.........?

Did I miss it? Oh wait. You're working on it, right? Golly, you've got me sitting on pins and needles. By the way, I promise I will not call you a lier. Instead I will spell the word correctly if it is called for. So, go ahead and surprise us all. What DO you believe about "the Bible"?

Will K

Yes, Will, you can get pins and needles waiting for the sign...

Jg*20:38 Now there was an appointed sign between the men of Israel and the liers in wait, that they should make a great flame with smoke rise up out of the city.

Originally Posted by Will Kinney

... By the way, I promise I will not call you a lier. Instead I will spell the word correctly if it is called for. ...

I noticed that (in another post too) after I posted, but the software would not allow me to edit for some reason. Oh well, I'm sure no one else here ever had a typo in their post. Thanks for inspiring me to delay the answer you're so impatiently waiting for.

[Diligent]

Originally Posted by Critical Thinking

I noticed that (in another post too) after I posted, but the software would not allow me to edit for some reason. Oh well, I'm sure no one else here ever had a typo in their post. Thanks for inspiring me to delay the answer you're so impatiently waiting for.

Well, I've had enough of this nonsense. It doesn't matter what your answer is, because you will no longer be posting here at all.

He never answered did he...
I got the distinct feeling he was avoiding Will's question...

[magicref]

Boy, I hate to do this, but I'd like to come to a partial "defense" of Critical Thinking (CT), even though he has been banned.

I almost had the sense that he was playing "devil's advocate", and wanted to make sure we were thinking strongly about our positions. For example, on the other thread he was making the argument that the 1611 version was completely accurate, while the modifications can't be trusted. I think that BibleProtector responded quite well, and I value that those defenses are now available to me because of CT's arguments! <grin>

Now, does CT really believe the 1611 is perfect? I don't understand why he played around with this for so long, as it didn't server him (or us) in the long run. At one point he argues that the 1611 is the one true version (since it has Oaths vs. Oath's), but then he says "I think the KJV which exists right now is the complete, inspired and 100% true Holy Bible!" Now, I guess he could be referring to the 1611 version, since it does exist right now, but the impression this statement left me was that he was referring to a refined KJV that we would read today. In any case, it was strange how he kept wanting to keep us in suspense over his views.

Let's talk about Matthew 24:34-36: "Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled. Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away. But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only."

The plain context of this passage (in my opinion) is that Jesus is saying to the listeners that they can surely believe the prophecy that He has been making in Matthew Chapter 24. That "Heaven and earth shall pass away", but that His Word will come True - you can count on it!

CT seemed to be making the argument that none of our words "pass away", even those that aren't recorded. First, he correctly states that Jesus said many things that aren't recorded in Scripture, then CT points out that even we will be accountable for what we say, so that our words are recorded as well.

I would argue that for our own words, those that are idle words will "pass away" even if they are recorded. They are like straw, and when tested by the fire, they will burn and be gone. Our words certainly can't be seen in the same light as Jesus' Words that "shall not pass away."

But how about Jesus' Words that are not recorded in Scripture? Will they (have they?) passed away? In the one sense it is clear that whatever these words were, they were true and accurate at the time, but it is also clear that God did not intend for us to know what these words were. Also, in the context of this passage, it would be meaningless for Jesus to be saying that all the words he ever spoke would not pass away. For example, it is likely that as a child he asked for a second helping of dinner. These "words" have passed away in the sense that they are not important to us today (or during the time of Matthew 24) and have not been recorded.

Further, even though I believe in this passage that Jesus was referring specifically to the words he was speaking in this prophecy, I also think that God meant a dual meaning when these words were recorded. That is, I do believe this passage teaches that ALL God's recorded Words will not pass away.

I always thought it was interesting that Jesus lived before the days of video and audio recording devices. Rather, His Words were preserved and passed on to us in the written Word. We might not like the way it was done (why didn't God just start out with the Book already completed and hand it to Adam?), but God's ways are Good, True, and Best.

Doug A.