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#1
06-16-2009, 09:07 AM
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Plus, for anyone who is interested, the Lord doesn't seem to have a problem with Samson comparing his WIFE to a YOKED HEIFER...we know it was a "yoked heifer" because it says "plowed with my heifer;" I can't find in the Bible where you can plow with only one ox! So SCRIPTURALLY, there's 'being yoked' connected with a marriage relationship! (Judges 14:12-18)
Pam www.custerfamilyfarm.com |
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#2
06-16-2009, 10:34 AM
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Re: "Biblical Marriage - "Joined Together" or "Yoked Together"?"
Aloha all,
Please take note of "custer's" radical "ATTITUDE". This woman is a perfect "example" of what I was referring to as the "Westernized" (or "Americanized") woman. {It's known as HUMANISTIC "FEMINISM"!} Please check out her pernicious Posts and review her comments in regards to me (a harmless old curmudgeon  ). The woman is "OBSESSED" with yours truly, simply because I have spoken the truth. Notice how she will "IGNORE" the overwhelming number of proof texts as to the meaning of "yoke" and how she desperately runs to ONE text (and takes it out of "context") to prove her preconceived ideas. This woman is not only "out of order', she is also "OUT OF BALANCE"! This is the woman who, early on, claimed: "I disagree with most of what has been posted on this thread, but I DON'T want to argue - I would like to try to understand where y'all are coming from!"; and who has done NOTHING but ARGUE (and is STILL "ARGUING") since she joined our happy little group!  "Christian" women should NOT be so disingenuous! And this is one of many reasons why I REFUSE to have anything more to do with the woman. She is OUT OF "ORDER" and OUT OF "BALANCE"!  She is a typical "EXAMPLE" of the typical MODERN Westernized (or Americanized) "Christian" woman, who REFUSES to receive instruction, and is in REBELLION against God's "ORDER" and against His Holy word! You can do NOTHING for these kind of "Christians". It is "an EXERCISE IN FUTILITY" in trying to "reason" with them. They are determined to be "RIGHT" at any and all costs - even if it means making a complete fool of herself. This is the result of HUMANISTIC training and education, which produces SOPHISTS - yes even "CHRISTIAN" SOPHISTS!  This woman has been nothing but argumentative, contentious, and combative since she came here. She has done nothing but agitate, disrupt, and disturb the fellowship that most of us seek here. And the "FRUIT" of her contentiousness has been confusion, discord, and division. I have dealt with these Westernized (or Americanized) "Christian" women for over 50 years - there is NOTHING that we can SAY or DO that will CHANGE them. If we all IGNORE her - she will go away, or she will "get so out of hand" (i.e. OUT OF "ORDER") that she will be "banned". Proverbs 13:10 Only by pride cometh contention: but with the well advised is wisdom. Proverbs 17:14 The beginning of strife is as when one letteth out water: therefore leave off contention, before it be meddled with. Proverbs 18:6 A fool's lips enter into contention, and his mouth calleth for strokes. Proverbs 22:10 Cast out the scorner, and contention shall go out; yea, strife and reproach shall cease. |
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#3
06-16-2009, 09:02 PM
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Quote:
I have spent hours reading all the verses from the study and their contexts - and everybody following this thread can see that I dealt with SEVENTEEN verses of scripture in my post #22, not ONE, like you assert. (YOU chose to "IGNORE" all those scriptures AND facts!) If you are done with your elementary schoolyard bullying tactics, can we discuss YOUR thread? If you don't want to talk TO me, then tell everyone else on here what is wrong with my post #22... If you feel the need to defame ME once again (who's "OBSESSED" with who here?,) don't waste the time that we're supposed to be redeeming by typing it all out AGAIN...everybody here already knows what you think of ME; instead, please comment on the verses and the study of the words themselves! Pam www.custerfamilyfarm.com |
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#4
06-16-2009, 10:57 AM
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Quote:
You are actually using Sampson's metaphor for the sex act with his wife as support for your assertion that scriptures using the "Yoked" metaphor apply to the marriage relationship? That's a good one! I don't know whether to blush or roll around on the floor laughing!!! 
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#5
06-16-2009, 03:10 PM
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Quote:
I know that I'm naive, but PLEASE, am I the ONLY one who has NEVER seen any "sex act" in Judges chapter 14??? And, if "plowed with my heifer" WERE a reference to a "sex act," the "metaphor" would DEFINITELY (duh!) be related to the marriage relationship! INCOMPREHENSIBLE!!! |
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#6
06-16-2009, 04:45 PM
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Quote:
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#7
06-16-2009, 08:35 PM
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Well, greenbear, I'm glad I can be a source of amusement for you!
I have to admit, I was about to post that your thoughts are completely incoherent, but I think it's just better to assume that you and I are incapable of communicating our thoughts in written form...fair enough? For the record, I did NOT "use a man's description of having sex with his wife as evidence" FOR ANYTHING... I do NOT believe now nor have I ever believed that "plowed with my heifer" has ANYTHING to do with sex!!! If "plowed with my heifer" is "Samson's metaphor for the sex act," as you assume, then in verse 18, he accused thirty people of sleeping with his wife (the thirty guys from verses 11-18!) Again, I am NOT arguing about ANYTHING...you are the one who defined the "metaphor!" I simply wanted to know how you got that idea (the "sex act" thing) from the passage...I still don't know!!! I am really sorry that we seem to have a communication problem almost every time we talk; I wish I knew how to fix that! Pam www.custerfamilyfarm.com |
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#8
06-16-2009, 10:05 PM
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Quote:
OK, Pam. I see where I lost your trail. It was Post 26. I missed one letter: an "N". You typed "NEVER" and I read it as "EVER". It was incomprehensible to me that someone wouldn't know that Samson was describing sex with his wife with the phrase "plowing with my heifer". Quote:
Quote:
 Quote:
Please read Judges chapter 14... with understanding. Jg*14:1 ¶ And Samson went down to Timnath, and saw a woman in Timnath of the daughters of the Philistines. Jg*14:2 And he came up, and told his father and his mother, and said, I have seen a woman in Timnath of the daughters of the Philistines: now therefore get her for me to wife. Jg*14:3 Then his father and his mother said unto him, Is there never a woman among the daughters of thy brethren, or among all my people, that thou goest to take a wife of the uncircumcised Philistines? And Samson said unto his father, Get her for me; for she pleaseth me well. Jg*14:4 But his father and his mother knew not that it was of the LORD, that he sought an occasion against the Philistines: for at that time the Philistines had dominion over Israel. Jg*14:5 Then went Samson down, and his father and his mother, to Timnath, and came to the vineyards of Timnath: and, behold, a young lion roared against him. Jg*14:6 And the Spirit of the LORD came mightily upon him, and he rent him as he would have rent a kid, and he had nothing in his hand: but he told not his father or his mother what he had done. Jg*14:7 And he went down, and talked with the woman; and she pleased Samson well. Jg*14:8 And after a time he returned to take her, and he turned aside to see the carcase of the lion: and, behold, there was a swarm of bees and honey in the carcase of the lion. Jg*14:9 And he took thereof in his hands, and went on eating, and came to his father and mother, and he gave them, and they did eat: but he told not them that he had taken the honey out of the carcase of the lion. Jg*14:10 ¶ So his father went down unto the woman: and Samson made there a feast; for so used the young men to do. Jg*14:11 And it came to pass, when they saw him, that they brought thirty companions to be with him. Jg*14:12 And Samson said unto them, I will now put forth a riddle unto you: if ye can certainly declare it me within the seven days of the feast, and find it out, then I will give you thirty sheets and thirty change of garments: Jg*14:13 But if ye cannot declare it me, then shall ye give me thirty sheets and thirty change of garments. And they said unto him, Put forth thy riddle, that we may hear it. Jg*14:14 And he said unto them, Out of the eater came forth meat, and out of the strong came forth sweetness. And they could not in three days expound the riddle. Jg*14:15 And it came to pass on the seventh day, that they said unto Samson's wife, Entice thy husband, that he may declare unto us the riddle, lest we burn thee and thy father's house with fire: have ye called us to take that we have? is it not so? Jg*14:16 And Samson's wife wept before him, and said, Thou dost but hate me, and lovest me not: thou hast put forth a riddle unto the children of my people, and hast not told it me. And he said unto her, Behold, I have not told it my father nor my mother, and shall I tell it thee? Jg*14:17 And she wept before him the seven days, while their feast lasted: and it came to pass on the seventh day, that he told her, because she lay sore upon him: and she told the riddle to the children of her people. Jg*14:18 And the men of the city said unto him on the seventh day before the sun went down, What is sweeter than honey? and what is stronger than a lion? And he said unto them, If ye had not plowed with my heifer, ye had not found out my riddle. Jg*14:19 And the Spirit of the LORD came upon him, and he went down to Ashkelon, and slew thirty men of them, and took their spoil, and gave change of garments unto them which expounded the riddle. And his anger was kindled, and he went up to his father's house. Jg*14:20 But Samson's wife was given to his companion, whom he had used as his friend. You mention cross-references. Quote:
As a friend of mine says, you "have to read the scriptures with Holy Spirit eyes." We shouldn't rely too heavily on second-hand opinions about what the Bible says when we can get it straight from the Author Himself. Last edited by greenbear; 06-16-2009 at 10:14 PM. |
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#9
06-17-2009, 09:49 AM
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I highly doubt that "plowed with my heifer" refers to any sort of sex act whatsoever. Samson was calling the obvious, that they had used his wife against him.
Since there is no mention whatsoever of the Philistines having sex with the wife (nor yet Samson), but rather threatened her with burning, there is no way to extrapolate a sexual metaphor. Now I know that in modern-day slang the term "to plow" can be used in an ugly, sexual way, however there just isn't any reason to read that into Judges 14. Ironically, an heifer is a young cow that hasn't yet given birth, which can depict a newlywed wife. (Not what I'd call my wife, but...) Also, Numbers 19:2 and Deuteronomy 21:3 refer to an heifer as normally being destined to the yoke (unless offered for sacrifice). Now was Samson also implying that he is yoked to her? I'm not sure. She was outside of Israel, yet it was the Lord's will. I doubt that is good grounds to sanction lopsided relationships/marriages. The Judges 14 passage has nothing to do with sex acts, although it does lend a bit of credibility to "being yoked" referring to marriage, although the initial scriptures given for a difference between being yoked and being joined are still evident as well. I've heard 2Cr 6:14 used so often to come against lopsided relationships, I'm interested to see how this plays out. 
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#10
07-07-2009, 07:54 PM
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PAm,
I reread this thread wanting to see if I missed something. You were the first to make some indications of a problem I couldn't see in post #4 "pam ducking" I could not see any reason for that statement. Were you ducking blows or are you saying George was ducking away from you? so you see you came into the thread with something on your heart. I have to do that with Parish. Often I have to come into thread posts he made and clear my heart of personal biased of him in order to read his post simply for what it is and not with my personal feelings. then you came into posts 21 and 22 where you came in with a PRECONCEIVED idea that Greenbear would quickly accuse you of manipulating. Can you see it you came in with your guns blazing. you did the same in post 22 to George. As I see it you brought over from another thread your emotions and hurts and started applying it to this thread. that is where you went wrong. not that you were wrong in what you said. but your own personal bias was implanted into everything your opponents said. though they were not really trying to be your opponents. so it is your heart where the issue lay. Try coming into the threads without bringing with it past or events that took place in other threads, give an abundance of grace (we all need it) and try to learn from it. It would seem George came out with his view only after you seemed to be ignoring the Yolked references of which you said you agreed. but your statements seem to indicate that yolked to you is a marriage. that is What George was stating. it is easy to be offended but harder not to offend. I do see why you are upset. Slow down and consider more what is being shared and try not to react with strong emotions. when responding be sure not to make remarks that would seem like you missed understood the reason for the thread in the first place. it really looks like a misunderstanding that started on your part though you may have understood the yolked references. don't be so sensitive as you read. George is really a good man. |
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