Quote:
Originally Posted by ChaplainPaul
Interesting discussion. I never would have expected it to develop like this. I didn't know water baptism was such an issue. I do believe it is for today. To me, it's just as simple as plain obedience in good faith. I can't really add anything else to the posts that so many capable people have already written.
I would say, though, that it's a personal obedience to the Lord. A person shouldn't be baptized to satisfy their Pastor's belief. I'd much rather someone come as the eunuch, "See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?"
|
Paul, my entire position is founded on the signs of an apostle, water baptism being one, fading from the scene after Acts 28. The Jews require a sign according to Paul, and the baptism of Jesus's day was the consecrational washing of Exodus 29, 40, and Lev. 8 as the first step in consecrating aJewish priest. The prophecy of Exodus 19 was the "righteousness" fullfilled by John and Jesus both in Matthew 3, to make Israel, the whole nation, a kingdom of priests. Christ's baptism was the first step, the second step being sanctification of pouring the oil, a type of the Holy Spirit. God the Father sanctified Christ after His baptism, and Christ thus became the great High Priest after the order of Melchisidek per the book of Hebrews, which He had to be in order to bring His own Blood into the Holy Place in heaven in similitude to the high priest in OT Israel bring the blood to sprinkle on the Mercy Seat for the sins of Israel, Christ's blood was for the whole world, He was not of the Levite tribe so His order was after Melchisedek. When John the Baptist spoke to the gathered common people and the Levites represented by the Pharisees and Sadducees they
knew exactly what he meant when he said, thus I come baptizing with
water. That baptism was Lev. 8.
JWs and Church Of Christ use debate word-games. I'm surprised that a few in this thread see water baptism as so great a part of the ministry of reconciliation that these word-games are used by blood-bought Christians. "Baptism" is not found in the OT". True and False.
It's found in Hebrews 6 and 9 referring to the OT. "Judas Iscariot is the Anti-Christ" is not found in the whole Bible. By using Isaiah 28 we see it is found here:
Joh 17:12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is
lost, but
the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.
2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and
that man of sin be revealed, the
son of perdition;
'Believer's baptism" is another term not found anywhere in the Scriptures and some have to go back to Christ's earthly ministry to try and justify a work of the Law(water baptism, the Levite washing)if we are going to play JW/COC word-games rather than Scripture with Scripture.
Ro 15:8 Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of
the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:
I am obeying Jesus Christ's message to me through Paul to be a
minister of the reconciliation rather than a
minister of the the circumcision. I am not "of" Paul but I follow Paul. Paul's commission was not to baptize in water but to preach the gospel. That's my commission, not to make Jewish priests through water baptism, a work of the flesh and a dead work. The one baptism is not water, and is not performed by a minister or pastor or evangelist but the Holy Spirit.
Paul says we
must rightly divide the Scriptures then
in Ephesians 2 he tells us how to divide it. Times Past, But Now, Ages To Come. Genesis through Acts 28 is Times Past. All the signs were operative in the book of Acts, I have never denied that though the "Scripture" I have been given in opposition to this position is nearly always someone being baptized in Acts,
when it was operative.
It was operative in the OT(Exodus-Crucifixion).
It was operative in the book of Acts.
It's not operative for today, because the Scriptures written to me mention water baptism only once, and that was Paul denying he was sent to do it, a work of the Law to consecrate a Jewish priest, written to a primarily Jewish Church(Corinth).
Romans through Philemon is But Now, doctrine for today, Hebrews-Revelation is Ages To Come, Tribulation, Millenium, Eternity. Times Past doctrine and Ages To Come Doctrine are interrelated, the Sermon On The Mount is the "Constitution" for the Millenium, as an example.
God said he would teach me by similitude, by precept upon precept, line upon line, by comparing spiritual things with spiritual things. In doing that I have established a line straight back from Acts 28 clear through to Exodus 19 that water baptism is a work of the Law of Moses. An OT ordinance? Yes. A NT ordinance? No.
It is an unusual occurrence that one "dry cleaner" can discuss the topic of water baptism with a forum made up primarily of Baptists but this forum is special. I hope we have all been decent and orderly and spoken towards edification, we differ here on Gaps, angels copulating with women in Gen. 6, and water baptism, but we are all still One in Christ.
I salute your work with our troops, and pray for them, and ask you join me in praying God will show our governement how to fight a guerrilla war.
Grace and Peace Chaplain Paul
Tony