[Steven Avery]

Hi Folks,

Genesis 1:1
In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

Originally Posted by BrianT

In Hebrew, the suffix "-im" (pronounced "eem") indicates a plural ending, as "-s" does for English. The singular form of this word (without the "-im" suffix) appears in verses that have both "heaven" and "heavens" in the same verse, such as Deut 10:14, 1 Kings 8:27, 2 Chron 2:6, 2 Chron 6:18, and Neh 9:6.

Let us be more specific, Brian. First, let us take your first example, unusual as it is, special idiomatic construction as it is (clearly better would be to use one of the 500+ places where the word is simply 'heaven' singular).

Deuteronomy 10:14 (KJB)
Behold, the heaven and the heaven of heavens is the LORD'S thy God,
the earth also, with all that therein is.

Deuteronomy 10:14 (Holman)
The heavens, indeed the highest heavens,
belong to the Lord your God,
as does the earth and everything in it.

Uh, oh, Brian, already we have a problem. Did Holman miss your singular ? Or are they simply deficient, not up to Brian snuff. And why do they have two plurals ? Hmmm...

And why not tell us more specifically the Hebrew of Deuteronomy 10:14. The three words involved, the Hebrew of each one, whether any two are an idiomatic usage, and which word or words match Genesis 1:1, and their proper Brianian English. Then we will go on. Do as much of the above as you are capable.

And to work with a much simpler verse. (Feel free to just work with this one first if you like.)

Genesis 1:8
And God called the firmament Heaven.
And the evening and the morning were the second day.

Simply tell us your difference between the hebrew word for 'heavens' (per Brian) in Genesis 1:1 and 'Heaven' in Genesis 1:8. Or tell us if you assert this is a flawed translation of Genesis 1:8 because it does not indicate your plural. (ie. Brian's claimed superior translation would be "God called the firmament Heavens").

And if you do not have a word distinction to show, then let us know which Bible versions have Genesis 1:8 correct, per Brian. ie. What versions translate Genesis 1:8 with the plural that you claim is the proper English.

Note: literally hundreds of similar verses could be discussed.

Shalom,
Steven Avery

PS
For the forum, if we have to put so much effort in with Brian as something as simple as this, shamayim, clearly it is understandable how the understanding of the "faith of Christ" as distinct from "faith in Christ" is seemingly totally beyond his grasp. Nevertheless, for the readers, since we have many excellent threads about that distinction, grammar and exegesis, and with Matthew Henry and other good helps available for discussion, and hopefully more insight today, that will be planned to be continued on another thread dedicated to "faith of Christ". Probably one in progress earlier, or a new thred, rather than being buried a bit on this thread. The information is too vital.