08-08-2008, 07:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by George
Aloha brother,
I appreciate most of your "post" - EXCEPT - you left out the "basis" of "election".
Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
1 Peter 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
I'm not going to try to persuade you to my point of view, but I will state (for the record) that you conveniently "left out" all of the "whosoevers".
{John 3:14-16; John 4:14; John 11:26; John 12:46; Acts 10:43; Romans 9:33; Romans 10:13; 1John 4:15; 1 John 5:1)
Matthew 12:50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.
1 John 2:17 And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.
1 John 3:23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.
John 6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
John 17:20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
Acts 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.{& Acts 19:4}
Romans 4:24 But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead; {& Philippians 1:29}
1 Timothy 1:16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.
1 John 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
Ephesians 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, AFTER that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also AFTER that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
You see - A Christian can believe in "election", "predestination", "calling" "justification", and "eternal salvation" ("preservation" - NOT "perseverance") without being a Calvinist. We also can believe in "whosoever will" without being an Armenian! It's NOT an "either/or" proposition, no matter how hard some (in either "camp") try to force us into one or the other.
The one thing that is common in every single Dispensation (under every Covenant of God) is BELIEF!
#1. In the Garden of Eden (Under the "Edenic" Covenant) - Adam was required to "believe" God (there was no "Faith" involved) and to obey Him.
#2. After the "Fall" (under the "Adamic" Covenant) - all that was required of people before the flood was for them to "believe" God and obey Him.
#3. The same holds true for all those after the Flood under the "Noahic" Covenent. They were to "believe" God and obey Him.
#4. Under the "Abrahamic" Covenant - Abraham and all of his descendants were to "believe" God and obey Him.
#5. Under the "Mosaic" Covenant - Moses and all of the Israelites were to "believe" God and obey Him.
#6. Under the "Davidic" Covenant - David and all of his descendants were to "believe" God and obey Him.
#7. Under the "New Testament" ("New Covenant") - Believers in the Lord Jesus Christ {all His "seed"} are to "believe" God and His holy Apostles (and their writings) and obey Him.
#8. In the Great Tribulation - Believers in the Lord Jesus Christ are to "believe" God and obey Him.
#9. In the Millennial Reign of Christ - People better "believe" God and obey Him. (There will be no "faith" involved)
From the very beginning up to the present and out into eternity, God wants people to "believe" Him and obey Him. There have been different Dispensations; God has required different things of people under the different "Covenants"; but the one constant thread running throughout all of the ages (Dispensations), and under all of the "Covenants" is God's requirement that we "Believe" Him (and of course His Holy words). He does not FORCE us to "believe" Him, but He "requires" it! In this age it is simply: Acts 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
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I didn't conveinently leave them out , pepople read to much into those whosoevers , Most of the time it's just stating a fact , For instance in 1 Jn.4:15 it's stating that if you are confessing , God is dwelling in you . 1Jn. 5:1 If you are beleiving [ believeth , present tense you are born of God [ is ] present tense . Acts 10:43 whosoever believeth [ present tense ] if you are believing you shall recieve remission of sins , see how it just states a fact and not telling you to believe to obtain it ?
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